No longer a Vegan after 11 years

But was the comparison like for like Vegansrock? I do not mean diet, I mean attitudes to food and lifestyle? This comparison was no doubt a couple of years ago, when there were fewer vegans and most were like you and the 'true vegans' as described byGeorgesgran above.

Unfortunately, over the last year or so, being a vegan has become a fashion statement. Like going gluten free was several years ago, that now seems to be tailing off, and I suspect that is why there are so many plant-based 'meat' products coming on the market. Doctors and nutritionists have expressed concern about the nutritional balance of the diet of many of these new vegans, because UPFs (ultra processed foods) are forming a large part of their vegan diet and there is a heavy reliance on exotic foodstuffs flown in from abroad and their effect on the agriculture of the countries they have come from, not to mention all the extra emissions from the planes bringing them in.

I am sure that in a few years time many of these fashionistas will have ceased to be vegan and will be following the next food fad. However, I am sure the number of real committed vegans will rise.

There is research that shows while vegans have less heart disease and diabetes, they are more likely to have strokes.

Isn't it strange how differently people react to something like veganism? One of my daughters suffered from Irritable Bowel Syndrome for years. It made her life her misery. She tried everything she could to help herself and then she decided to become vegan. That was about 3 years ago and the change in her has been dramatic. She looks better than she has ever done. One size does not appear to fit all were veganism is concerned.

I think you can adopt a more plant based diet without necessarily being a strict vegan, depends on the motivation. One size doesn’t fit all as said above. Lots of people find their gut problems or arthritis improve when removing dairy from their diet.

My niece and her family are vegan (lifestyle, not just diet). She has two very young children who follow the regime too. All of them are healthy, and they aren't too smug (?) although the older child (about 5) has had veganism explained in child-friendly terms, so does sometimes come out with some less than tactful remarks.

It is a full-time job, though. As most of society is not geared up to veganism, it is surprising how many things are not allowed to them. Even things like hand cream probably have lanolin in them, and everything they buy or use is checked for animal products.

I think the fact is that I would see it in terms of what I was denied, whereas they really don't. Even the children (although the little one is probably too young) look at it in terms of what they can do, or can have, and get satisfaction out of (what they see as) saving the planet.

It's not a bad thing, IMO, although it's not for me, and I do wonder if some of the reactions against veganism come from people who feel inconvenienced when they are asked to think a bit harder about things when a member of their family 'converts'.

I cannot see any problem catering for a vegan. I have learnt to cater for people with severe allergy problems and have happily provided meals for vegans, vegetarians, people with severe IBS. None of it caused a problem of any kind.

Anyway. if you eat a wide range of foods, you have days when you effectively eat vegan without even realising it. I realised the other day, that I had just such a day.

I would leave the shoes, clothes, cleaning materials etc to the individual to sort for themselves, but i do not see why catering for a vegan could cause anyone any problems, better a vegan than a fussy eater, especially a child that is a fussy eater.

Oh, I agree, but there are those who see it differently. My mum tends to roll her eyes, for instance, and finds it inconvenient to have to buy different sweets (as an example) for the vegan great-grandchildren, as she's not used to thinking about it, and has 10 of them. You have to avoid any dairy products, so chocolate is out, as is gelatine, which is in many jelly or chewy sweets - that sort of thing.

Similarly, having to check the labels on clothing to avoid any animal fibres, and generally having to be aware of what's what in a vegan lifestyle can be a chore for some people, and that's what I'm getting at, really.

I certainly wasn't insinuating being vegan or vegetarian was bad for everyones health,just mine,I did cut out wheat and caffeine as well when my colitis was diagnosed so that may have had an effect along with a more mixed diet .Nothing will suit everyone .

Glad you are feeling better. I think you are doing right. A mix of 'good quality' and moderation most of the time.

There is a lot of side taking here. Truth and false on both . It’s impossible to make broad general statements about meat eaters or plant eaters ( sounds like dinosaurs !) Both may eat highly processed imported foods of poor quality - or take great care to source as locally as possible and cook from scratch . Some people care about where their meat or dairy comes from some don’t . Plant eaters may or may not care about where their veg etc comes from or have a clue about nutrition . Absolutely it is easier to ensure protein intake from meat and three veg - being a well nourished vegan takes time, effort and knowledge. I do agree that an over dependence on supplements is not great and vegans do need essential elements not generally present in their diet or have to work very hard to get them ! ( fermented natto beans anyone ?) I also observe that vegetarians have an over reliance on cheese ! Maybe meat eater have too much bacon .... My personal ideal is to be mainly plant based - seasonal local food - with small amounts of meat/ fish ethically and locally sourced . So much is imported for all our diets along with masses amount of soy to feed our animals ..... ! Environmental arguments can go backwards and forwards also - who doesn’t like to eat salad all year round but ...... in winter it should be cabbage not lettuce ! Remember those old recipes for ‘winter salads’ ? . It’s right that we should try to eat balanced healthy diets and that will differ from person to person . Let’s rejoice that we have the choice ! In my own family we are three vegans , two vegetarians, two meat eaters and two who eat mainly a plant based diet but consume fish on a weekly basis. It makes for fun cooking ??. Everyone does like cake though ....

I think it is perfectly possible to live healthily on a vegetarian diet. Not sure about veganism though.

But in both cases I think you have to be very careful to eat correctly.

I had a friend who always said that she was very sensible about ensuring the correct nutrition etc, but when trying to get pregnant found she was extremely low on vit B12 and had to have injections. She now eats meat, after initially bringing up her daughter on a vegetarian diet, who when starting nursery started to refuse to eat veggies only and demanded meat.

When we celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary with a family meal for 15, I had to cater for 3 vegetarians, 2 people with serious allergies and one person with IBS and a hiatus hernia.

I hired outside caterers for the event and between us we designed a meal where everyone ate the same food apart from different main course (but same veg) for the vegetarians and one person had an Eton Mess made with grapes rather than strawberries. I was quite proud of myself (and my caterer). I must say I enjoyed the intelelctual challenge this posed.

And if we all become vegans what is going to fertilise all the soil for the veggies? Lots of lovely chemicals.

I hate to say it, but only organic farmers use animal manure fertiliser and even then it will be supplemented with acceptable artificial fertilisers. The same goes for pesticides.

Treated human waste is often used now too, I'll never forget a friend who had a vineyard telling me how they had to have the soil cleaned every five years to remove the heavy metals which humans have in their bodies.

I've been vegetarian nearly all my life and vegan some of the time. I began as a result of concern about factory farming but I have continued because it's been so good for my health. However, what we eat has wider ramifications than just avoiding exploiting animals, the soils in Britain are being starved of nutrients. Try Googling soil deterioration in the UK, you will find that there is serious concern, eg.

“The world's top soil could be gone within 60 years” says a senior UN official; “Britain has only 100 harvests left” writes the Independent newspaper; “UK is 30 to 40 years away from the 'eradication of soil fertility' warns Gove” [the former Environment Secretary].22 Jan 2021

I am not sure that is entirely true, JillyJosie2. Non organic farmers, spray cattle and chicken slurry on their fields and have to be careful how they use it because of its high levels of nitrogen and other elements. I have also seen heaps of solid manure on some fields which are not on organic farms.

Soil analysis has shown that where land is cultivated to organic standards, this decline on soil quality has been reversed.

You may well be right Monica, I was quoting a couple of organic farmers I knew in Oxfordshire and things that occasionally get shared by Riverford.

This is perhaps diverting the thread, for which I apologise, but I must admit I've shocked myself for idly checking up on soil fertility which I'd read about and clearly future fertility is a concern and must influence how we buy and eat our food.

Main findings of a recent government report www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-of-the-environment/summary-state-of-the-environment-soil:

Soil is an important natural capital resource. It provides us with many essential services.

Soil biodiversity and the many biological processes and soil functions that it supports are thought to be under threat.

There are insufficient data on the health of our soils. Investment is needed in soil monitoring.

In England and Wales:

almost 4 million hectares of soil are at risk of compaction
over 2 million hectares of soil are at risk of erosion
intensive agriculture has caused arable soils to lose about 40 to 60% of their organic carbon
soil degradation was calculated in 2010 to cost £1.2 billion every year
Compaction and the loss of organic carbon are serious threats to soil health. They affect agricultural production and our resilience to climate change. UK soils currently store about 10 billion tonnes of carbon. This is roughly equal to 80 years of annual UK greenhouse gas emissions.

Wasting food and growing crops for bioenergy are putting additional pressure on soils.

Spreading of some materials to land is poorly controlled and can give rise to contamination. Some 300,000 hectares are contaminated in the UK.

Microplastics are widespread in soil with unknown consequences.

The vegans I know all have stomach problems but say it’s nothing to do with their diet. It’s not for me. I am trying to be veggie three days a week.

I've known a few vegans to be anaemic.

None of the vegans I know have stomach problems . A lot of the meat eaters I know have high cholesterol, high sugar levels and heart problems.I’m sure I could say the reverse too ??.
The planet is never going to be totally vegan, some people choose to be so. Soil health is incredibly important but years of neglect and farming practices haven’t helped . Listen to James Rebanks ‘A shepherds life’ on Radio 4 - or read it. It made me cry about farming and I grew up on a farm. There are alternatives to cow muck - green manures ( we grew clover and ploughed it back in ) seaweed, grains. But a few animals for fertilising soils may not always be against a vegan way of lifestyle ..... Crop rotation and the right crop for the soil, adapting to a no plough technology and drill seed straight it preserves the soil and increases yield . Farmers and growers have also learnt the organic way does work but takes patience. It takes years to get rid of heavy metals and pesticides - my young grandaughter probably has DDT in her body as it is still out there. Never mind the plastics ! We must protect the soil but traditional farming doesn’t, with slurry , overuse of pesticides and run off into rivers .Where is that slurry from? It’s cows that have watery shit because they are indoors fed on rubbish rather than the nice firm cow pats of field reared animals. Veganism is a revolt against factory farming and cruelty. Antibiotic resistance ? Think about the amount that is used in agriculture - more controlled now but if we import our meat who knows ...? Be kind folks

Great Post marymary I read A Shepherd's Life*. I loved it. Your last point about imported food and lower welfare standards is so important now that we're going to be importing more from America.

I passed a farm of outdoor pigs recently and they looked so happy. I guess their end is not so good with the closure of so many abattoirs.

I saw a poster of a mixed group of farm animals the other day with a caption which read 'we are not products', so important to remember.

Some people are feeding their dogs a vegan diet which doesn’t seem right to me. Then a thought crossed my mind - if we all went vegan what would happen to zoo animals like lions and snakes that baby chicks are fed to?

Oh my word I am laughing so hard. So many “well I know a vegan who”. I could counter that by saying I know meat eaters who’ve had every illness going, have died, been anaemic, had cancer. Some meat is known to be carcinogenic. Google vegan athletes, it might open your minds. We used to get B12 from the soil but due to intensive farming much has been lost. Either animals are supplemented or people are. Most B12 supplements are not vegan, in fact all those rows upon rows of vitamin and mineral supplements in the shops, most are not vegan. Omnis buy them hoping to feel better. Hospitals and GP surgeries are full of omnis. Vegan diet can be junk food or healthy, just like omni diet. Most vegans start off on fake meat then transition towards whole food plant based. For example cottage pie made with lentils. I’m not sure why more people don’t read actual research rather than believe “my mate said”! I went vegan. Since then I’ve taken up running and run a marathon. I wouldn’t kill my (rescue) cat and eat it so why would I pay for companies to grind up live male chicks in a macerator so I can have an egg?

Razzy - I’m with you ! It’s sooo funny reading all the ‘ I know a vegan.....xxxx’ and “what if the world turned vegan “ Razzy is right about supplements too - hands up all non vegans who take them? Lots I am sure - especially all that Vit D we don’t get ! All the animals will not die just because we aren’t eating them. The soil won’t disappear . We Vegans don’t expect other animals to not eat meat if that is their thing but are fundamentally opposed to caging any animal anyway ! Maybe if we’d looked after the planet a bit more we would not now need to keep animals captive in zoos anyway .... their only ethical purpose now is for breeding rare species not so we can go and enjoy watching a penned in tiger .... Vegan none vegan surely we can all agree on that !

What I dislike most about vegans, regardless of how they eat is their holier than thou attitudes and air of moral superiority.

Humankind has developed a digestion system that can digest almost any potential food product and indeed , had they not developed the capacity to eat meat, and cooked meat in particular we would still be in the jungle with the rest of the primates, swinging from branches and picking fleas of our nearest and dearest.

Given the huge number of food stuffs over the world, climates, religious and other life styles there are many different eating patterns and veganism is just one of many,

What I am still waiting to hear from someone who espouses a vegan diet, is how it would work for someone who is allergic to soya, nuts and uncooked fruit. Soya and nuts seem to be at the core of vegan eating, whether you eat a wholesome and healthy range of fruit and veg or rely on UPFs and the range of foods left will be strictly limited. Could it provide a nutritious eating pattern and could it provide the interest and variety that anyone expects from their meals?

I don’t eat much soya or nuts. Legumes, salads, bread, seeds, vegetables, cooked fruit, grains are still all available to you.

I walked past 2 different primary schools at home time today. I'm fairly unobservant, but it was noticeable how unhealthily overweight many parents were. And yes, I could do with losing a stone, or even 2. Obesity is a killer, heart disease, diabetes etc, and Veganuary etc. is one way of getting people to think about what they and their families eat, and perhaps think more about their health in general.
Not a vegan myself, but I've vegan friends, who are all perfectly healthy.
For some random reason, a sporty 20-something I've known for over a decade, always a meat-eater, did Veganuary in 2019, and couldn't believe how much better they felt on a plant diet. They have never returned to their previous lifestyle.

What I dislike most about vegans, regardless of how they eat is their holier than thou attitudes and air of moral superiority.
Presumably there are other vegans out there who never mention they're vegan. But no-one acknowledges them, because folk don't know they're vegan?