School toilets.... locked!

Eloethan I suspect in 99.5% of schools students who genuinely need the toilet during a lesson are able to access one. I was at the theatre yesterday. Running time was just under 2hrs without a break. One member of the audience,a man in his 30s, had to leave during the performance. It was a nuisance and he managed to drag someone's coat along the row with his feet! I am sorr
y if he was unwell but the running time was made clear!!

I don't remember desperately needing the loo when I was at school but that could have been because we didn't drink very much. Milk wasn't compulsory in secondary school and I didn't bother with the glass of water at lunchtime.

Drink is everywhere in schools now. Drinking fountains, mineral water and fruit juice on sale, kids allowed to carry bottles of drink in their bags. Is it any wonder they need the loo?

Probably what used to be the Upper Fifth anno

Sorry - I wandered off the subject a bit.

Surely it is a right to go to the toilet when one needs to? Obviously, if that right is abused then teachers should speak to pupils collectively about it or individually if certain students don't heed the warning.

I do think there is truth in some students not valuing education and I'm not quite sure how that should be addressed. There are so many distractions these days and there are so many expectations that life should be entertaining all the time. It is a very hard job these days being a teacher and I think that, given the challenges, most of them seem to do pretty well.

I think when I was at school, most children just sat and did what they were told without questioning anything. From what I recall, if they were bored in a lesson they just "tuned out" rather than become disruptive. (Though I did go briefly to one co-ed secondary school where an older male English teacher was finally reduced to tears as he tried to read a poem as paper aeroplanes were thrown round the classroom. I found the whole episode so distressing that I said I was going to leave school as soon as I could, but my parents got me into another school).

Although I feel every child should leave school with reasonably good literacy and numeracy skills, I think there is far too much emphasis on academic achievement now. Young people seem to do so many subjects these days that perhaps there is little time to concentrate on "soft skills" like introducing oneself with a smile and a firm handshake, being able to engage in conversation about a range of subjects, etc.

Like yours, Soutra our primary school's toilets were outside - cold and usually smelly! No wonder my mother used to say I had 'hollow legs'! In the secondary department, we didn't have an indoor loo until we reached the dizzy heights of the fifth year - probably known in England as the Lower 6th.

tiggy that has been a cultural shift over time. At one point in time pupils had no 'voice' and teachers ruled, often with fear and parents tended to , if not actively support the school, certainly not challenge it.

We have got to a point now where schools have become more open, more communicative and cater far more for children's specific needs. Instead of this development being appreciated /valued it seems to have given some the confidence to assert assumed 'rights' to challenge everything including professional decisions, colour of uniforms, types of food served etc etc. The result is that some children do not value schools/education. School leaders/teachers often spend a disproportionate large amount of time sorting out parental requests/ concerns than they do supporting improvements to teaching and the curriculum.

I am not advocating a return to 'the old days' but I think that some families need to be able to empathise more with the needs of other children and not just their own. Schools are mini-societies and help children learn that there is always give and take in life/reationships.
In return schools need to have the minimum amount of 'rules' needed to keep children safe, able to learn and to make good progress in their lessons and enjoy learning.

I may have missed something but it seems to me that everyone is talking about the RIGHTS of pupils being able to go to the toilet when necessary. In my book we don't have RIGHTS without RESPONSIBILITIES ie using the facilities at appropriate times and not interrupting lessons and the education of others.

Great strategy Soutra

Further to anti social activities in the toilets, at one of our local Secondaries, newly built about 8(?) years ago, staff and students use the same loos. Much less graffiti (the staff have had to stop!) no smoking, minimal bullying or any unpleasant behaviour as the students never know who will come in next. Took a bit of getting used to, but it is working.

soutra

Maybe somebody has beaten me to it, but the toilets at my primary school were outside and frequently frozen- we learned bladder control at a very early age! At my secondary school , the "new " building enjoyed the luxury of indoor plumbing but many lessons were in the " old" building and again the loos were of the outside variety. You had to really need to go to use those although at break the conditions didn't deter the dedicated smokers!

Yes there were clear rules in many schools about not going to the cloakroom during learning time (primary) and i know at my secondary school you just did not ask! It was the same for my DDs. I have no idea if any school toilets were locked, certainly not in any primary schools I know of.
I cannot imagine any school deciding to lock cloakrooms during teaching time unless they felt it was absolutely necessary and without due warning to the students in the school.

Many schools have had toilets redesigned so that they are directly off a corridor rather than cubicles in a cloakroom specifically to prevent inappropriate behaviour happening out of sight.

www.coombegirlsschool.org/Mainfolder/Documents/Supporting-Pupils-With-Medical-Needs-letter.pdf This is a letter from the website of the school I attended in the 60s! Thought it might be of interest to people concerned that schools are not taking account of students medical needs.

Many thanks for the understanding and supportive responses.
My DGN is a lovely, bright, sensitive girl. I am concerned that she has become anxious about going to school altho' she does seem a little more settled now she has her 'pass'.
I think school loos should be accessible at all times with measures taken to ensure that the need to lock them be obviated.

Penstemmon

Nobody has said the children have wet their pants.

Did you, your children or any school you worked at lock the Loos or refuse children permission to go? That is the question being raised!

I think your post was a little more specific than you are now portraying it but this is hardly a topic to fall out over.

I remember coming over faint in a German class [Lower VIth so I would have been 15] in which there were about 10 of us, because of period pains. Funnily enough it was the boys who were more sympathetic and helpful than the girls! One of the boy's father was a doctor so he reckoned he knew it all. I would have been allowed to go to the loo if I'd needed it.

I visited the girls loos on a school reunion about 10 years ago - and they were really nice; not like they were in my day!

I had a child who constantly asked to 'go outside'. Of course I told him he couldn't go outside until playtime. Then he wet himself. I explained to his mum that he hadn't asked to go although he said he had. She laughed and said her mother used to live in a house with an outside toilet and 'go outside' was the phrase they'd used for going to the toilet. The phrase had stuck and the family still used it. It hadn't crossed her mind to tell me.

anno i had a chid in my class who referred to needing a poo as 'Need to go and think' confused me for a while!

Pogs if there had been a pant wetting situation I think I would have remembered it! If I had been or the kids had been anxious I would have remembered it! If there had been friends who were upset I would have remembered it. As I do not recall anything like that re toilets I guess that almost everyone was OK! I was NOT being smug.
I have also worked in primary schools for 35+ years and never been overwhelmed with 6+ yrs kids who have wet/soiled themselves except in exceptional circumstances usually due to a one off tummy bug! The one case I recall I as the head cleaned the little chap up because the TAs said they could not do it as the poo made them feel sick

I was a prefect when I was in the 5th form (Year 11 nowadays). Each class took it in turn but we were the best....at least until the adults found out why. We never had any trouble. Kids behaved in the corridors and toilets. We were constantly being held up as an example to other prefects. Well until they discovered that we kept order through corruption.

No one was ever reported for smoking in the toilets provided they chipped a ciggie into the kitty. Corridors were busy but no one was ever kicked out provided they didn't get stupid and chipped in some sweets for the kitty. Kids without sweets and ciggies were still allowed to stay in. We didn't penalise anyone for being skint. It wasn't extortion in the normal sense . We got away with it for two terms but during the third term someone snitched. Everyone lost out. The kids had to spend more time outside, the smokers couldn't have a quick drag in the toilets at break, more kids were put on report and staff had to deal with more discipline issues. We were stripped of our privileges and our form tutor was so disappointed.

Ah happy days

At my last school, where there were 1600 students, the loos were never locked. However, throughout the day, members of the Senior Leadership Team were assigned walkabout duties, which involved regular checking of all the loos, as well as being on hand for emergencies and disciplinary issues. (It was very good for one's fitness, too!)

The girls I taught in Africa were a bit shy about calling a spade a spade and if they needed to use the loo, they would ask to 'go for a short walk' which confused me when I first arrived there!

We had a marvelous selection of toilets at my Secondary School, and even way back then it was a place for "bunking off." I spent many maths lessons in one, sometimes alone and sometimes with a friend.

The school were on to this and had a system of spot checks. A friend was found reading a comic in the loo instead of going to a class. We all thought he was a bit of a hero to be honest. (teenagers!)

Why not bring spot checks into use at schools now, or are the schools too short staffed. Maybe a caretaker could do the rounds on a regular basis?

I don't remember anyone asking to go to the loo during class times which lasted 40mins and as we moved about the school all the time, there was plenty of time to "go" if you needed to."

It would be awful for any child or young adult to feel trapped and not able to get to a toilet easily or have to fetch a key. Everything connected to schools seems to be getting soooo complicated.

I do remember a girl wetting herself once and it was awful for her. Don't know what went wrong there but I think she was too embarrased to ask "to be excused." No child should have to go through that.

vampirequeen I have similar memories to yours about the school I moved to in Romford when I was about 9 - having to go to a toilet "block" outside in the playground. The worst bit was the humiliation of having to ask the teacher for toilet paper - two sheets of that shiny stuff was the ration.

Re toilets, I too thought how completely unacceptable it would be for adults to be treated in such a way.

Penstemon. Do you call the situation that POGS described, or/and the one OldGreyMare describes as a genuine medical need?