Home schooling

I said it and I stand by it- I have explained twice!
You are not obliged to teach anything. If you never want to do the Tudors then you don't have to. No one is going to force you! In school, if it is on tne curriculum the teacher can't say 'my class are not interested in the Tudors- we are going to jump to the Georgians'. Home educators can- simply because they are not obliged to teach anything.

My dictionary:
Obliged - bind;compel.

I am very surprised if the LEA came in durhamjen and said 'we insist you teach fractions by Easter'! The Home Educators who cooperate with them would most likely stop cooperating with that amount of interference.
In school teachers do as they are asked and if you are expected to teach fractions by Easter you teach fractions by Easter.

It is very different- if it wasn't there would be no point in doing it!

I think that you are pretty unusual as a home educator durhamjen - the majority that I know of haven't signed up for anything- never got into the system- have never had a visit and refuse any visits. They know their rights and they stand by them. Some of them are radical unschoolers which means they don't teach anything- they 'falicitate their learning' -and if that consists of computer games that us what they do!

That is not the law, Ana.
The law states that the local authority can request examples of work from home educated children. If the parent refuses to comply with two requests, an attendance officer can be sent to the home and ask for evidence. If that evidence is not forthcoming, the child can be required to attend school by a school attendance order. If the parent still does not comply, they can be taken to court.
From Durham County Council website. There will be something similar on your county website.

"Evidence of learning
Following receipt of your proposals for educating y
our child at home, the Education
at Home Group will invite you to submit evidence of
your child’s learning. This may
include pictures, paintings, models, diaries of edu
cational activity, projects,
assessments, samples of work, books, educational vi
sits etc. Alternatively, parents
8
may prefer to submit a written or verbal report or
have their educational provision
endorsed by a third party (such as an independent h
ome tutor). Parents who choose
to employ or engage other people to educate their c
hild will be responsible for
ensuring that they are suitable to have access to c
hildren
Samples of learning will be returned to parents but
if they are bulky, or might be
damaged in the post, parents may be requested to co
llect the material.
If at either of these two stages, of providing prop
osals and evidence, information is
not submitted to the Education at Home Group then a
reminder will be issued. If a
response remains outstanding, an Officer from the E
ducation Welfare Service will be
asked to make contact. If it then appears that par
ents are not providing an efficient
and suitable education the School Attendance Order
process will be commenced.
This process can result in legal action which will
enforce a parent to provide an
efficient and suitable education, either by regular
attendance at school or otherwise"

By the way, Leticia, it's amazing what you can learn from computer games.
I learn a lot.

I think you just follow the rules, durhamjen! My sister did all that- had a lovely inspector who liked visiting her- she was not the norm! The poor man had stories of dreadful rudeness.
Radical unschoolers simply don't work that way and can't do as asked.

" In law there is no duty for an LA to monitor a home educated child's provision but in practice they often do."

That's a quote from an HE website, durhamjen.

Not if you just play computer games - no one is saying you shouldn't play-but more than 2 hours a day is unhealthy. IMO.

I have had home educators rights explained to me on MN in no uncertain terms! I keep off those threads and don't dare comment any more, but I can assure you that they don't do as you set out durhamjen - and no action is taken.
If someone is getting harassed by the LEA someone will give advice on exactly what to say or write and they do not submit evidence in the form of work, models etc.

I read "They are not obliged to teach anything" as "There is no specific thing that they are obliged to teach"

There are a whole load of "cans" in your link durhamjen.
That is not the same as actually doing it.

That was how you were supposed to read it, Elegran, but then a Home Educator interpreted it as criticism meaning she didn't do anything!

The Durham website assumes that education at home is going to be like school with projects, models, diaries etc. That is fine for many home educators- it is the way that I would do it. However many simply don't have it- especially if they are radical unschoolers. My sister was always welcoming, kept a diary, the children discussed what they had done, gave him tea -and cake baked by the children, got support and advice. But that was not his usual experience! It may be difficult to imagine that some wouldn't even open the door to him and shouted 'go away' through the letter box! ( what a terrible example for the children).
As schools are all different, they are all so different and you can't make a statement 'HEers do .........' because many don't. A home educator described it to me as 'trying to herd cats' to get some classification!
So far they get away with it. I suspect that it is because they are a tiny minority, but a very vocal one who would put up a huge fight that the authorities are not ready for.

Both my son and DIL taught at a school very close to a well known alternative community where the majority of the children were home schooled. Some of these youngsters would come into the local academy in their senior years to obtain national qualifications. My DIL, who is an English teacher, had particular difficulty in getting them to work to a timetable, and was actually told on more than one occasion when asking about missing work that they 'hadn't been in the zone' to do it. Probably an extreme example but these youngsters were not well prepared for life outside their community.

Soontobe, I can only read one "can" in my Durham link.
There are a lot of "will"s.

I am sorry, Bambi, if you have not got the reassurance you were obviously seeking. Whatever impression you have been given, I do not believe we are in the minority in the way we teach my grandson at home.
Today when I was taking my granddaughter to school, she screamed as she had nearly stood on what she thought was a leaf on the path, but turned out to be a rather large frog. It hopped under the wheel of a car in someone's drive.
When we went to get the newspaper, the i in case anyone's wondering, my grandson was chatting to the woman in the shop, and others joined in telling him all about their encounters with frogs and toads and what were the differences. We spent two hours this afternoon reading and writing about frogs and toads, on all sorts of computer programs, as well as listening to them.
When his sister came back from school, he was able to recount all he had learned, and reassure her that he had saved the frogs life by knocking on the door of the house where the frog was. The woman was just about to go out in her car, and would certainly not have noticed it.
Just in case anyone's wondering if he did nothing this morning, he learned about polygons, and ended up working out the inside angle of the points of a regular complex nonagon, after reading two chapters of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, and writing down a list of words that he did not understand, then finding out their meanings and explaining to me how he could use them.
This was possible because he was homeschooled. My grandson was having speech therapy until he was eleven. There was no sign of it in the high school. There was also no one to one which is what the school was paid for. At least now he gets his one to one.

Those on here who actually do home schooling seem to have positive experiences, so do take heart from that, and pm us if you want to.
I repeat that those who homeschool properly are not in the minority as far as I am aware. We see others quite regularly who teach as we do.
We read the Education Otherwise website, and were actually scared by it before we started.

I can't see why Bambi hasn't been reassured- no one has suggested at any point that there are not lots of home educators who do a wonderful job. The majority will be perfectly OK (average) and at each side will be the very good and excellent- and the ones that need to improve and the ones who are dreadful. (The same as schools). Bambi must have a clear idea of what sort she has in the family. As long as they are average or above they are fine. Even better if they are going to work with the authorities.
I am only pointing out that although local authorities may have clear 'rules' like Durham, and set out consequences if you don't adhere to them, they are relying on people like durhamjen cooperating. Those who don't want to cooperate,and don't work in a way that can fulfil requirements do not have to- and they know this and stand on their 'rights'.
Maybe you are just lucky in the ones that you meet, durhamjen and haven't come across some that I have heard about! Quite possibly Bambi's grandchildren will avoid them too- BUT they do exist.

And when I have been on MN home education threads I have been told - so forcefully that I keep off- that they don't teach.

Are you not aware that average is not good enough in schools these days, Leticia? Teachers are terrified of being thought of as average by ofsted.
Nothing like damning with faint praise.

True dj, of your reply to my post.
The 4 cans are in what you wrote first.

I use the proper definition of average - I wasn't aware we were in OFSTED speak!

Which average?

I've a feeling that if there are home educators who are very resistant to being monitored, who get up late and who don't really teach their children anything, then it is quite likely that even if those children had attended school they may well not have gained a great deal more from being there than being at home.

The only person I know whose children were home educated was the adult education co-ordinator of the first year of the adult literacy teaching course that I did. She had four children and worked full-time. Her husband stayed at home with the children and, from what I saw of them, they were intelligent, articulate and well behaved.

I think it is important for children to learn the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic because without them they will be ill equipped for most kinds of work and for further studies. But I hate this idea that by the age of, say, 18 if someone hasn't done that well in education (whether at home or in school) that is it. With a good quality, flexible and reasonably priced adult education system, those who, for whatever reason, did not do well in education can pick up later in life when they are more settled and more motivated. It's a shame that adult education has now become so expensive, apart from courses, such as computing, which are directly employment-related.

I agree Eloethan. My son was assaulted five times in year 7. After constant meetings with the teachers and head teacher where nothing came of it and the abuse carried on, we decided for him to be home schooled.

By this time his confidence was on the floor, his self esteem gone and I was really worried about him doing harm to himself. He suffered depression over the next few years. Nevertheless, we did still do his studies, wrote up his subject lists, kept records of what work was done and filed all work. He did presentations for the home school department when they called, he baked for them, he told them of his trips out and the people he met. Not once did we refuse a visit from the home school department, my son used to look forward to it to show off his work.

My style of teaching was very much like durhamjen's in that it was organic and developed as time went on. We would look at subjects which would interest my son, he became a keen wildlife photographer, he learnt how to trade, he learnt politics, he did a course on genealogy, he learnt to do d-i-y, he learn art and music by going to galleries and seeing bands. But most important of all, he got back his self worth, he learned to enjoy people again and to trust. He learnt lessons that classrooms do not teach. And if I had my time over again, I would home school my son from day one because he did not enjoy school at all. He hated it from the first day in nursery but I did not know any different. I did not know about home schooling. No-one told me. No-one informed me, as a parent, that I had a choice. This is wrong.

I certainly didn't do home school thinking it would be the easy option. Some other posters seem to refer to people they know or have heard of being home schooled and who do nothing but lie in bed all day. Can I say that maybe it is better to walk a mile in someone else's shoes before commenting on things you haven't had the experience of. Knowing someone who does it is not the same as doing it yourself. I knew someone who was in the Army but I've never been on the front line!

If there are parents who are not doing it correct, then it is up to the authorities to sort this out, not for other people to tickle tackle behind their backs. How do these people know what goes on behind closed doors anyway? Most of our work was done late at night because that is when my son was most receptive and worked best. Every child is different. That is the beauty of home schooling is that we didn't have a time table to work to, no-one set an alarm. But we did work from getting up to going to bed because everything we did had a learning experience connected to it. Just like durhamjen said about finding the frog, a learning experience. And the encounter with the frog led on to finding more out about them and knocking on the door, teaching her grandson about trust and safety and kindness. He sounds like a lovely young man, who will no doubt go far in life due to his grandmother's teachings. I applaud you for doing a fantastic job, one which few seem to do well, according to this thread. (But we know different, we bought the t shirt .)

The 'average' in that home education is just an educational choice and, like schools, has the whole range from excellent to dire with everything inbetween- including the biggest group of average.

I have never doubted that durhamjen or rubylady are doing a good job, although they appear to see my posts as criticism. They were both attempting to teach- durhamjen uses the word 'teach' and since she quotes the Durham website it appears that he does written work, art, projects etc.

I know from experience that I would need a very hard hat if I were to go on HE on MN and use the word 'teach' or suggest that everyone ought to be able to do as Durham EA ask.I keep off
I can only think that durhamjen has never come across a radical unschooler who has no examples of work to submit- and even if they did they wouldn't!

I really can't see why this is being made into two camps when it is just an educational choice and many people use both e.g they HE and then send to school later for exams, start with school and then opt out or just HE for a couple of years- or they have one child at school and one HE.

I can't see why Bambi should be alarmed if she knows that the parents are perfectly sensible and capable. There is a big HE community where they can belong to groups and of course there are all the masses of after school, weekend and holiday groups that are open to them as well. (It is perfectly possible to avoid the ones with extreme views)

In later life you really can't tell who went to school and who was educated at home. It is just a choice.
Unfortunately the authorities can't be relied upon to sort out the inadequate home educators because there is no proper monitoring - or rather there is no proper monitoring for those who won't cooperate.

Our family is just about to start on the home education route again. This time its my gd 9years who has been hideously bullied and we have tried everything to fix it. So, at last the choice is made, home ed it is. I home educated her aunt from 14 to 18. She is now 25 has my beautiful youngest gs, who at 4 is an utter delight....she is a banker now, so didn't do that bad really. No we have decided to go for this I am very excitied and cant wait to see what adventures my gd and I get up too.

I hope it works out well for you GrannyE. Just been reading in the paper this morning about the long term effects bullying can have on a child. I know that bullying has always existed and some children are more adept at dealing with it than others but these days with the Internet and phones taking pictures etc. Children have so much more to deal with.