Denied toilet break

dgd says one of the girls peed herself during p.e this afternoon because the teacher wouldn't let her go hopefully this will make the school see sense

Vicwarren , you are an adult and can hold your bladder i do not think it is right to compare that with 10 year olds

Also, i cannot imagine how the little boy felt this morning fidgeting and desperate all morning, i wonder what the teacher would have done if he had wet himself, i am surprised she denied him with my dd in the class.

Madgran

The girl could not have been that desperate otherwise she would have asked me again, she also managed to hold on for an hour and half until lunch. If she was that desperate the chances are she needed a wee at playtime. As trisher it does not matter how much i need a wee i have to wait.

At the age 6 i agree it is not right though

How is any child expected to concentrate /learn if they are trying not to wee?? And at age 6? Give me strength!!

Year 5 are much more able to cope and has anyone worked out that teachers only go to the loo at break and lunch times? 10 year olds are quite capable of doing the same

vicwarren

I think it is terrible that you do not let children go to the loo , even though they are older i am sure that girl did not concentrate on her work as well as if you had let her go for a pee.

My dd went in as a parent helper this morning. She said that one of the little boys asked to use the toilet and the teacher wouldn't let him go without a note even though he was fidgeting, he had wait until playtime. i think it is terrible

vampirequeen

you are right they still can be desperate. I have been teaching 24 years and have always said no during lessons, never had an accident or any complaints from parents. As i said if they are truly desperate i would let them go.

Upper KS2 can usually hang on but even they can get desperate sometimes.

KS1 can't hang on for long and it's a bad rule that needs challenging. In the meantime if the rule says the child needs a note then I would send a note.

I had a similar problem when DD2 developed asthma. A teacher decided that she was taking her inhaler as a method of wasting time or getting out of a lesson. I went in for a 'chat'. I was a CSA in the school and was quite sympathetic to the teachers because I saw a lot of the crap they had to put up with. However the teacher was adamant that she was wasting time and I was adamant that he wasn't a doctor so couldn't tell if she needed it or not and therefore had to err on the side of caution. The school had a daft rule which meant that all inhalers were kept in the school office not in the classroom. We agreed I insisted that as she was Year 6 she was quite capable of keeping her inhaler with her and using it as and when required. Not long after the school rule was changed and the inhalers were kept on the teacher's desk in KS1 and Lower KS2 whilst Upper KS2 children kept them on their desks/in pockets.

Exactly trisher, year 5 bladders are much more developed than a year 2 child.

Last week i had a girl ask me about 3 minutes into the lesson after break time insisting she was bursting to wee. i said no,she should have gone at playtime and told her to sit down, she waited to lunchtime and did not request the toilet again.

i will make exceptions if i think they cannot wait and would have certainly let her go if she told me her stomach was hurting like the op dgt. To make a 6 year old wait 2 hours for a wee in my opinion is disgusting, even if she had just had lunch

I think that's fine with Y 5 who are much more mature. The length of the afternoon for Key Stage 1 shocked me. 1.15 to 3.30pm seems far too long to me to expect a 6 year old to wait. Longer than the 2 hrs. I know there used to be restrictions on the time younger children had in school, but think that has all gone now.

I teach, and i do not let children out to the toilet during lessons, however my children are year 5 so a little older. They get plenty of breaks and the longest a child would have to hold on is 2 hours, they seem fine with this.

In the op circumstances i do believe that she should have been allowed at the second time of asking.

The more focus is placed on going/not being able to go to the toilet, the more children will become anxious and feel they need to go to the toilet. Surely adults have experienced this?

I would be having a look at the toilets as well Lexisgran in case your DGD has been put off going in there.

Would those who advocate the child should have gone before class started do the same to their own child/ grandchild if say they were in a restaurant and they had previously asked their child / grandchild if they wanted the loo before the meal arrives and they said NO but whilst eating their child / grandchild said sorry I need to go to the toilet? Would you say to your child / grandchild 'too bad , you were asked if you wanted the toilet now hold it in' and chance they didn't wet their pants in the restaurant?
As the mother of a DD who was consistently doing that very thing, in the end it becomes so irritating that you have to make absolutely sure they have been to the loo and washed their hands before coming to the table.

They should all be reminded to go before going back into class; there will always be one or two children who do have urinary incontinence or an infection, but most children do not need to go to the toilet more frequently than every two hours unless they have a problem.

Locked toilets is an entirely different matter POGS and tends to be with older children where there have been instances of unacceptable behaviour in the loos. That is bullying, smoking, drug dealing or using, and other nefarious things teenagers get up to. In these cases it is necessary to supervise the toilets whenever they are being used and it is impossible to do so all the time. If you don't think these things go on you don't know much about schools. So would you prefer your GC to go to an unsupervised open loo at any time where they might get beaten up or be offered drugs or would you prefer them to be safe and supervised in loos that are sometimes locked?
We are discussing primary schools where most loos aren't even lockable

It certainly is another topic that has two entrenched views isn't it.

I posted a link on Friday to an old GN thread on 'locked school loos' it happened on there too.

The point I don't understand is the need to curb school children from going to the loo because there are occasions when it is abused. It's like saying we've cancelled the school trip for everybody because we know so an so will not behave.

To prefer a child to suffer holding in a wee, allowing a child to wet itself and all that goes with that as an issue, to disbelieve a child may indeed be wanting a wee is totally incomprehensible to me.

The same thing apparently goes on irrespective of age, as the 'toilets locked 'thread showed. Whilst I do understand that some will abuse a toilet break request what about the poor child who suddenly starts a period and is told it's school policy.

Would those who advocate the child should have gone before class started do the same to their own child/ grandchild if say they were in a restaurant and they had previously asked their child / grandchild if they wanted the loo before the meal arrives and they said NO but whilst eating their child / grandchild said sorry I need to go to the toilet? Would you say to your child / grandchild 'too bad , you were asked if you wanted the toilet now hold it in' and chance they didn't wet their pants in the restaurant?

It's no different a scenario other than one is a child you don't know well, the other is your own flesh and blood and wouldn't dream of letting them wet them selves or cause them a probable tummy ache. At least I would hope not.

my dd goes into class as an helper every tuesday so is going to see how the teacher reacts when children ask to visit the toilet

I think that is why the teacher was studiously ignoring a couple of them during the school play
Unless there is something physically wrong and they have urinary incontinence or an infection a child should be able to control their bladder by the age of about 6 to be able to last between breaks.

The other consideration is: what are the school toilets like? Despite best efforts of cleaners etc, some toilets do smell or get wet and that could be offputting for some children.

Oh that's true Jalima1108 but any decent teacher identifies these children in the first few days and restricts their movements more than others. It's also useful to have a HT or other member of staff who does the occasional wander around the school and pounces on the miscreants who think a toilet is a playground (makes them think twice about it!)

It must be difficult to try to control a class of infants let alone not knowing where some of them are some of the time because they have nipped off to the loo; some may need it and some may just fancy a little wander around the school.

She is not planning on accepting this and i am sure when a few more parents complain, which i am sure they will if their child is refused the toilet, it wil be dropped

id be tempted to tell my children to wee on the teachers desk if told no

The HT needs to sort out the children who are going off not punish the others because of the few. There are so many ways of managing this-coloured bands one for girls one for boys, no one goes unless they have a band. A clock on the door child sets it when they leave so teacher can see how long they have been. Loads of other things. It's lazy just to have an all compassing ban.

the ht did say some children had been going off to the toilets during class too much, which is why they have introduced the rule. She also said if a child had medical reasons they would be allowed to go. DD intends on fnding out whether the goveners are aware.

Will update, surely not every teacher is going to stick to the rule and will show discretion if the child is bursting, at least dgt will now be allowed with a note anyway

I don't think this ruling is acceptable for adults (I know there have been reports of call centre staff being reprimanded for going to the toilet but I think that's reprehensible) and I think it is completely unacceptable for children. It could set up all sorts of phobias and anxieties. I would have thought school and life in general is stressful enough for children these days without adding to it.

Is this is a practice that is thought to be acceptable by the educational establishment and are there any rulings/guidelines relating to it?

"No loo in lessons unless they have a note" - how ridiculous.

I was a teacher and am shocked at this ruling. At the beginning of each academic year, parents in my school had to fill in an admin form, stating any medical conditions of pupils, so we were usually aware of children with medical conditions, who needed to frequent visits to the loo. This info would be updated throughout the year. Supply teachers were advised of this info, which was kept on a database, easily accessed by ALL staff, including pupil support assistants. Any named child was advised to catch the teacher's eye and just slip out without disturbing the lesson. Also, I knew those pupils, who would ask to go out, just to get out of the lesson. If a child who never asked to go out, asked, I knew that there was a problem and would send them immediately. It's all about common sense.