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(22 Posts)
Deedaa Sun 15-Apr-18 20:28:50

It's SATs time again grin DD (Biochemistry PhD, A for English A Level) rang me (A for GCE English O Level) to ask for help with GS 1's revision for SATs. I worked it out (I think) because she was reading the sentence to me so I wasn't being confused by the punctuation like her. Why on earth should an 11 year old be able to work out grammar that was baffling us? It would be so much better if he could concentrate on improving his spelling - which tends to be creative - and brushing up his BASIC grammar.

pollyperkins Sun 15-Apr-18 20:58:15

I think it's because those that write the National Curriculum have decided in their wisdom that 11 yr olds need to learn more grammar. So far so good. But they have gone into a lot of detail (some of it A level standard and beyond) and changed a lot of the terminology so that we oldies don't recognise it. I agree it makes more sense to concentrate on basic grammar, spelling and punctuation and concentrate on getting that right!

M0nica Mon 16-Apr-18 09:01:13

I thought SATS included spelling. DGD's SATS revision book includes lots of spelling tests and they learn the basic grammar before they start on the more complex grammar.

Next Autumn, in secondary school they are going to be learning a foreign language and to learn a foreign language effectively, where grammar may be different, you need to first be confident in the grammar of your mother tongue.

M0nica Mon 16-Apr-18 09:12:14

I thought SATS included spelling. DGD's SATS revision book includes lots of spelling tests and they learn the basic grammar before they start on the more complex grammar.

Next Autumn, in secondary school they are going to be learning a foreign language and to learn a foreign language effectively, where grammar may be different, you need to first be confident in the grammar of your mother tongue.

Luckygirl Mon 16-Apr-18 09:20:18

Don't get me going on the subject of SATs!!! Grrr!!!

Learning a foreign language should start in primary school when brains are attuned to language learning, rather than leaving it till later and forcing primary children to learn grammar to a farcical level - the teachers have to go on courses to learn it and the artificial language that is imposed on it.

trisher Mon 16-Apr-18 10:27:08

SATs does include a spelling test, but the grammar being tested does not take into account the child's literacy level. In year 6 they learn what is in the year 6 Literacy grammar syllabus and God help them if they haven't yet learned the basics

Greenfinch Mon 16-Apr-18 11:01:01

One of the tests is called SPAG meaning Spelling,Punctuation and Grammar. My twin grandchildren had two revision days over the Easter holidays in school which seemed to me a bit excessive.Instead of just being able to use tenses they needed to know them by name eg past perfect progressive and present perfect passive.This is all very well but I am concerned that through no fault of their own the teachers themselves would struggle with this. I am really pleased that my two are quite laid back about it all and not inclined to worry.

trisher Mon 16-Apr-18 12:20:39

Which when you know that some children are struggling to construct sentences makes the whole thing a farce. Not surprising some children give up before secondary school.

MiceElf Mon 16-Apr-18 13:18:27

If you do Twitter, follow Michael Rosen. He completely demolishes this nonsense and also points out that endless mistakes made by those who set these ridiculous tests.

M0nica Mon 16-Apr-18 13:22:57

If the only people who sit a test are those that you know in advance will pass it what is the point.

My DS and wife and DGC have never shown any concern about the SATS or any other tests they have done, even when they struggled a bit.

Testing was a constant part of my education and all children in the class did them and what is more, in the 1950s the results would be posted up on the classroom wall, something no one would want.

My children's state primary school used standard tests prepared by a central body to test the children at the end of every year. It was a good school and in the junior section used tests that were up an age group from each class who took them. I cannot remember any one being bothered about them. As parents we didn't even discuss them. They were just part of the system.

annodomini Mon 16-Apr-18 13:58:01

Two years ago I was asked to tutor an 11-year-old girl in the term before SATs. The poor child was already on medication for a reflux problem related to SATs stress. Her school was making a big thing of the tests, taking struggling children out of games and music lessons for extra tuition. When I spoke to my GS, the same age, about SPAG testing, he shrugged his shoulders as if it was no big deal. I'm glad to say he did well!

Deedaa Mon 16-Apr-18 21:50:48

Greenfinch have you ever felt the need to know whether you are using the past perfect progressive or the present perfect passive? Me neither! grin Hope we can get GS1 through it without too many meltdowns (And that's just his mother!!!)

Jalima1108 Mon 16-Apr-18 22:22:14

We were trying to help DGS with some maths holiday homework today (Y5) but the language used just seems like gobbledegook to those of us who learned our arithmetic and mathematics years ago (including his mother).

We all got the same answers (working individually) but I had to google some of the terms used. What was wrong with the old-fashioned way?

Greenfinch Tue 17-Apr-18 07:03:15

Point taken Deedaa😸😸and I know exactly what you mean
Jalima.It is the geometry that has us completely perplexed.Ours have a very strange attitude to the whole thing. DGD1 decided to leave the last five pages of the mock out in order to go back and check the previous answers while DGS1 who is autistic decided not to answer the long questions but only those where you can tick the box !Lessons in motivation might be more helpful here.😸

J52 Tue 17-Apr-18 07:30:23

Years ago DS2 got a Science question wrong in KS3 SATs because he used the chemical symbols to answer and not the words.
The markers stick by the answer sheet so no words = wrong answer!

Deedaa Tue 17-Apr-18 09:13:01

Actually our main problem is that DD will be moving shortly (only a few streets away, but it will be "different") and she's hoping to get SATS over first because GS1 will never cope,with both at once. But, at the same time, they need to get settled in the new house before facing the upheaval of starting secondary school.

Jalima1108 Wed 18-Apr-18 20:07:58

I just remember when DD had some maths homework years ago when she was in about Y9 - we went through it together and she completed all of it. She was told 'Tell your mother the answers are all correct but the method was wrong' grin

Luckygirl Wed 18-Apr-18 22:04:04

Honestly, some of the teachers are struggling to keep up with it all - what hope a child who is struggling with the basics? Schools and teachers are judged on the SATs results, regardless of the specific needs of each child. There are some children who are never going to get a pass - but they will have learned lots for THEM, tried hard within their limitations, learned to socialise and co-operate, painted wonderful pictures.......... ah, but they have "failed" - tsk, tsk.

I am with Michael Rosen all the way - and his views on that dreadful programme The Life of.......4/5 year olds.

Luckygirl Wed 18-Apr-18 22:05:55

And yes - money is being made out of all this - teaching schemes are being sold to schools to focus on the SATs rather than the child. And these packages cost-a-load.

Lyndylou Wed 18-Apr-18 22:50:44

Well Luckygirl my GS is in Y5 and classified as SEN and to give the school credit, his support over the last 2 years has been fantastic. He is progressing steadily at the moment but at the last SEN meeting there was a hint that he might not be entered for the SATS next year. I didn't even know they could leave out some of the children like that, although I will be fighting for him to at least sit the Maths test.

Rebecca3 Wed 12-Sep-18 15:52:22

I am new to gransnet (very pleased to find such a thing) and will be returning to the U.K early next year, 2019, settling in St Ives , Cambridgeshire, (with my husband). We have a daughter there who is having a baby in January, so we won't be friendless, but I know that daughters with new babies don't need mums who are friends so much as mums who will cook and clean (and I hope, baby sit!) Will be careful of boundaries. I am posting here because I read Greenfinch's post on SATs and learners needing to know the past perfect progressive and present perfect passive. It surprises me a lot that they should require this! However I am a trained English teacher and have done a TEFL course and know exactly what the present perfect passive is. (I personally think it is silly to try to teach learners these labels shock. However, I am planning to put my name down at a number of private tutoring agencies (have started the process) and offering to tutor not only face to face but online. I love to teach..and have many years of school and private teaching under my belt. My reason is not just to earn money (tho' that would be nice) but to meet people and make friends as am feeling nervous about moving (yet again). Have lived in Africa most of my life. Just off-loading, really. Any more suggestions about making new friends at the advanced age of over 60 will be welcome!!

Deedaa Thu 13-Sep-18 23:48:53

Hallo Rebecca3 welcome to Gransnet! Tutoring sounds a great idea. My grandson had a lotbof help from a maths tutor during his last year at primary school. He has ASD and ADHD and his tutor said most of the children she went to were the same. It made such a difference having someone coming to his home and having the time and patience to work through everything with him.