Does our education system meet the needs the workplace

Adult and continuing education has been treated as a poor relation by successive governments and the parlous state of the Open University must be causing Harold Wilson to rotate in his grave.It has been a lifeline for several generations of mature students, creating opportunities and satisfaction in life and in employment. Now the OU is being starved of finance and courses are astronomically expensive unless the student is being sponsored by an employer or has somehow managed to get a grant.

Gma29
I am currently undergoing chemo for BC and chat with the nurses giving me the chemo.
I am shocked how the profession is being downgraded with many degree route nurses basically being administrators and health care assistants undertaking examinations and procedures that amazed me having trained in the late 60s early 70s.
These HCAs are obviously being paid much less for the work that would previously only be the domain of the SRN.
I wonder if this is why bursaries have been removed to encourage more prospective nurses away from uni and become HCAs

I think the bursaries for training nurses should be reinstated. Nurses need to be highly trained as they are taking on many of the role of doctors. Also they have to spend 300+ hours a year working with trained nurses, very much as we did in the 60's. Much of the work we did then is now done by Health Care workers, who can also go through different levels of training and are very good carers.

Agree Grandad1943
Trouble is how do you get potiticians and academia to acknowledge this need and adapt. It's like trying to change the course of an iceberg.

I got a nursing degree when I was in my 40’s and qualified in 2000. We spent weeks on the wards, in fact we did 4 shifts every week (and our degree ran 48 weeks a year). Our learning was very closely monitored & assessed by ward staff. A lot of nursing time is spent doing paperwork, there are reams of it to be completed, and much of it Government driven. Unfortunately, as time goes on, the number of qualified nurses on each ward seems to get lower, and with much of the paperwork having to be done by the qualified staff, it’s a nightmare. Once you factor in the time that has to be spent with social workers, liaising about home care etc, I found that much of the shift was “spoken for”. Far from ideal, but I was never just sat down!

trisher we understand student nurses are on the wards, but only in blocks with no continuity, plus they extra numerous and do not get paid.
In my last job I was Head of HR for a Government Education org. Overseas. A cv came across my desk for a Dr of Nursing. Apart from her initial training and the mandatory period of required hands on nursing to retain registration this person had never worked in a hospital or healthcare environment for any extended period of time. Her doctorate was purely academic and she was considered ideal to teach nurses. She was employed but only lasted six months.

Certainly higher education in Britain does need thorough review in my opinion as the present structure is failing Britain's commercial requirements. Within the UK economy a skill shortage exists which I believe threatens Britain's economic future if not met from within our education system in the post Brexit era.

As has already been stated in this thread much emphasis is placed on young persons attaining a university place and then a degree in our present structure. However, where I find myself at odds with that thinking is the type of attainment achieved on graduation.

Britain is heavily deficient in graduates with science, engineering or even equipped for careers in many of the professions when leaving our universities or other higher education establishments. In the past that deficiency has been somewhat made up by migrant high skills workers coming to Britain. However, with the Brexit vote that flow has dramatically reduced compounding an already poor situation.

Therefore, I believe that incentives have to be brought forward that will encourage people to enter higher education to study and train in the skills that the UK requires for the long term maintenance of its economic future. The foregoing, I feel could be brought about by the abolishment of tuition fees for subjects in higher education that are seen as highly beneficial to the overall UK economy.

In the above, degrees in such subjects as the sciences, engineering, health and law could become free of tuition fees and therefore more attractive to those entering university education. Along with the foregoing, "real apprenticeships" must also be returned by high skills employers with such needs.

There is also one other area which i feel very strongly could fulfil many of Britain's skill requirements, but has however been almost entirely neglected in recent years. That area is life long learning, and In that I was able in past years to attain qualifications that enabled me to progress in my mid life change of career to industrial safety.

Having left school without any qualifications whatsoever, freely available adult education through various channels completely changed my life and the lives of many others in previous decades. The foregoing, I believe must be restored, as within our already working population there is a wealth of undeveloped skills that Britain badly requires.

Trying to get more young people, but also long term unemployed into building eco friendly off site construction houses (send me a private message for more how us 'oldies' can still be connected to the young) I stumbled across traineeships. www.gov.uk/find-traineeship/ Those taking part in these 'tasters' will still receive benefits but seems to me an ideal way to boost confidence in those who may have lost it from being out of the workplace for a long time for various reasons (including stay at home parents). And gain basic maths and English help.I agree it's time we stopped worshipping academia and started valuing technical skills which really power UK plc and keep us competitive in an ever changing international market place. Awful story of the work shy and greedy apprenticeship experience - for a small company must have been devastating and expensive.

Exactly so gillybob people went into nursing to care for others, now they must be academic to get a degree - or just be a low paid healthcare assistant (who, from my experience, are better than a lot of the nurses on the caring side).

Well the nurses who looked after my mum in the last three months of her life were brilliant. Including the student nurse who went down with her when she had an endoscopy and her duodenal ulcer cauterised, holding her hand and reassuring her throughout. And STUDENT NURSES ARE ON THE WARDS it isn't purely accademic training (apologies for shouting but some seem unable to recognise reality)

Totally agree with you Hooty. The most basic quality of a good nurse must surely be to have a caring nature and really want to help people .

I agree about the basic English and Maths GabriellaG although I don’t think everyone needs to be able to understand and apply all of the very complex rules of English grammar in order to get on in life .

Some children might be brilliant in more practical ways, why should they be looked at as failures?

I totally agree with the nursing - just because you can write a dissertation or assignment about something doesn't mean you can actually 'do' it (hands on). I think this is where nursing has gone wrong, young nurses seem not to want to get 'their hands dirty' nowadays, they would rather sit at the nursing station filling in their paperwork . A lot of the ones looking after (oh the irony) my mum when she was dying were awful, and the district nurses that come to see my husband are useless!

Thank you for that NotSpaghetti my immediate thoughts were that if these children are unable to cope in s school environment then how would they cope in a workplace environment where there will be less ( if indeed any ) special support for them . I (perhaps very wrongly) assumed that being home schooled would lead to them being even more distanced than they need to be but totally understand the reasons behind doing it .

A degree shows that the person can work and study independently, unlike at school.

I agree that the caring professions (nursing, physiotherapy my profession) need to return to a more hands on approach in training - my mum was a nurse and did much of her 'study' on the wards, my physio training was very hands on as we spent half a day inthe classroom and the other half on the wards, treating patients under supervision

Gillybob, one of the benefits of home education is learning to have appropriate relationships with people of all ages. HildajenniJ's grandchildren may be ok with adults for example, as they tend not to be so vindictive to young people as a number of schoolchildren are. Perhaps this willhelp them secure apprenticeships if that's what they choose, so all is not lost.
Regarding University, I think it's a pity that it was ever linked to employment at all. It used to be a privilege to study a subject for sheer love of it and ultimately contribute to the wealth of knowledge. To sell a university education as a ticket to employment when so many now have degrees seems wrong to me.

Unbelievable! I actually wrote NO instead of KNOW.

I'd REALLY like to see people leaving education with a sound knowledge of maths and and English.
The number of adults (never mind children) who can't spell, punctuate, no next to nothing about grammar and have difficulty expressing themselves coherently, is increasing and shameful. Maths and finance ought to be mandatory so that people grow up knowing how to manage their money and invest in their future. Too many rely on credit and borrowing from mum and dad.

Let's start with knocking the nursing myth on the head. Student nurses are to be found in all NHS hospitals they do 12-14 weeks placement whilst studying for their degree. During their placement they are expected to experience and undertake a certain number of medical interventions and this is strictly monitored. Of course they also perform all the other duties of hospital care including personal hygiene for patients. Many of them also take on part time jobs as healthcare assistants to help pay their way.
Apprenticeships are probably desirable for many jobs that would once hve been described as trades. The cost of course is born y the employer and perhaps few employers want to spend the money.
One of the things I find totally unacceptable is the use of the term apprenticeship to describe someone being taught to serve coffee .

There is huge snobery about degrees in general. Parents seem to think their children have failed (or they as parents have failed) if they didn't go to uni. So many of my childrens peers went. For the lifestyle as much as anything. Around 80 plus percent didn't finish their degree or are not 'using' it. The one who are now best of in their late 20's approaching 30 are the ones who trained in the workplace. Many jobs still seem to value degrees over experience, which is very sad!

Joelsnan
I echo every single word.

I think I would be very worried too HildajenniJ .

If your boys are unable to cope with a school environment coping with a workplace environment is going to be very hard for them indeed. I understand why they are being home educated but this in itself will have added to the difficulties they will face when being forced to mix in later life. It’s hard for most young people to get good apprenticeships these days as there are not enough of them to go around and I know many small businesses like ours have had bad experiences and are put off from doing it again. So a young person with additional needs is going to find it extremely difficult. Are your boys perhaps gifted in computers? Maybe self employment/working from home could be the way forward for them. I wish them lots of luck in the future.

My DGC have little hope of achieving academically. The boys have additional needs and are being home educated as they cannot deal with school, and school has failed to teach them. Apprenticeships are what my DD is hoping for, when they are of an age to enter the workplace. They are all intelligent boys, but will need support in dealing with anxiety and social situations that arise in the workplace. I hope that they will be able to lead happy, independent lives, but I worry for them.

Totally agree with you Joelsnan I would add that there are young people who know from an early age that they are not academic and yet they are forced into studying for GCSE’s that will serve them little purpose in later life. Why not encourage those children down more practical routes? What happened to woodwork, metal work etc. And why not push that even further to include maybe plumbing , electrical and manufacturing practices, nursing, cooking etc.

The whole secondary education system has gone mad, where the heck are they getting their ideas from, how does opening free schools to become 100% religion based deal with inclusivity. How does increasing Grammar schools deal with what will be an evident skill shortage in the workplace.
We have had too many go through an academic route into teaching and lecturing with no workplace experience who are developing academic dogma based in impractical and unworkable ideologies.
Politics highlights this issue. Now Students all instilled with the same dogma at uni. Go to work as researchers in Westminster when they leave uni. Get offered a constuency and elected as MPs. The difference between these and politicians who enter parliament having undertaken long employment before being elected is very evident.