GCSE State/Public Schools

As teachers in the state school system, my ex and I felt strongly that our 3 children should attend the catchment area schools. To send a child to a private school while tracing in a state school seemed hypocritical.
Good enough to provide our salaries so that we could pay fees if we do chose, but not good enough to educate our own children?

they are actually opting to pay twice.
That logic seems to evade some people.

If all the privately educated children suddenly had to enter the State System, our state school system would be overwhelmed.

These parents still pay their taxes, some of which goes to the education budget so they are actually opting to pay twice.

It's Jalima btw

jamila Would you only accept a job at at the “best”school available?
I certainly would not have gone round failing my state school students in order to pick up a salary to send my DD to an independent school.

I would have done my utmost to improve standards at the school I was at and turn up to teach lessons.

Is it really a choice when not everyone can afford to pay?

I have had children in both State and Private schools, I defend mine and anyone's right to choose.

jamilla - why do you insist I want a dictatorship just because I said I'm a Marxist?

I have several times said on GN that we need more democracy - not less. I have indicated what we should demand to get it. too.

Actually I'm against uniforms too - in the last school I taught in before retirement the Deputy Head said he spent about 40% of his working week on chasing uniform infringements! On his salary that would be equal to one whole junior teacher! But that might start another discussion!!

jamila Would you only accept a job at at the “best”school available? What if you just needed a job? What if the school was the only one with a vacancy in your particular role? Would you turn it down? You might try to do your small bit to improving said school but if it’s got terrible management, is in special measures, whatever, doesn’t make you a hypocrite for taking a job there. Realist would be more appropriate.

If there was only the state system and it was a good one I might have sent my children to it. However that is not the case and for good or ill I don’t think that will ever be the case. It is my opinion that as a parent I had a responsibility to do the best for MY children and that meant, for me , sending them to private school. I am not prepared to sacrifice them to principles whilst the current system exists . I cannot do anything about other people’s children I can do something about my own. My daughter has made the same decision for the same reasons

Why is that "hypocritical" Jalima1108 I've worked in schools where quite honestly I wouldn't want to send any child if I had a choice about it. Quite often the school had management problems, staff retention problems and was in an area with massive social problems. My job was to teach the children as best I could under the circumstances and try to at least ensure they had some stability and education. It wasn't my job to change the management, it wasn't my job to stop staff leaving or having breakdowns and the little I could do towards helping with the social problems I did. If everyone only taught in schools they would send their own children to there would be massive numbers of underprivileged children with no education.
As for University education over a quarter of University funding comes from the government. If they charged more to those going to teach in private schools it would be fairer.

just because you work in a certain institution doesn't mean you think said institution is the best on offer.

Hypocritical.

jamilla why would you think teachers in state schools should "stick by their principles" ? just because you work in a certain institution doesn't mean you think said institution is the best on offer. I've worked in at least two schools I wouldn't send my child to, ( didn't stay in them long), plus I've fortunately worked in some I would ( and have) sent them to. People don't just work in a certain establishment because of their principles, its called a job. Unfortunately, social inequalities don't just come down to the school available .

The most useless maths teacher one of my DC had the misfortune to be taught by said quite openly that she only worked to be able to afford to send her DD to an independent school.

Not you PECS - I was thinking of another poster!!
perhaps I'd better not say, might get into trouble.

However, she has said that she is a proud Marxist so perhaps not.

I rather suspect that you (*Lemongrove**Jalima*) think I may be a socialist who hopes for a dictatorship but honestly I am not! I am a socialist, no problems about that but dictatorships are not my idea of Utopia.

I do believe in levelling out the education playing field but not naïve enough to think it will ever become a bowls lawn! I would just like to reduce the height of the mountain and use it to fill up the valley a bit!

I have worked, as a teacher, in many economically poor areas. I have seen many bright and able children do really well but whose social background proved a disadvantage when put in 'competition' with more socially advantaged kids who were equally academically able. That, in my mind cannot be right. Others here appear to think that is OK.

It is my opinion that the dual education system exacerbates this disadvantage. That is why I would like to see fee paying schools brought into the state system.

I will always argue, debate and take action to improve the chances of all children & not just the ones like my own kids!

Can’t see private schools being phased out anytime soon, even under (God help us) a Corbyn led government
He does have a bee in his bonnet about private and grammar schools though lemongrove - and I sometimes wonder if he had an unhappy time at his (then) independent school and the fact that his mother taught in a grammar school which may have coloured his views.

We'll all be wearing nice uniforms if some on GN have their way, perhaps similar to a zhifu.
At least we won't have to worry what to put on in the mornings.

At that time all the Tory councillors on the education committee sent their own children to private schools where the classes were much smaller.
My goodness - do you have a link to prove that fact - it does sound rather far-fetched.

Perhaps teachers at state schools should stick by their principles and send their own children to state schools instead of to independent schools (which several teachers at my DC's schools did).

Perhaps if private schools were expected to fully fund the costs of training their own teachers
I think that is rather a non-sequitur - all very well when there were Government grants for students, but they do have to fund themselves now except for a few.

What about the privately educated students who paid their own way through university and further courses (and still have student debt) and now work in State schools?

Threads like this run and run......those of us who believe in personal choice on how people spend money and those who would like more or less everything to be State chosen.
Neither will convince the other.
Can’t see private schools being phased out anytime soon, even under (God help us) a Corbyn led government.

Perhaps if private schools were expected to fully fund the costs of training their own teachers, had their charitable status removed and were made to pay VAT on their fees we might be talking about a completely independent system. But let's face facts these institutions, many of which were established to provide education to the underprivileged are in fact subsidised by us all.
As for how soon the funding would be made available as around a third of MPs attended private schools one can assume they will send their children to one. Add a few who will choose to do so and many who recognise education is underfunded and you have a majority who would fast track funding through the House if they felt their children might benefit from it.

TwiceasNice, not every naturally bright child has a hard working and dutiful parent like yourself. For those left behind children it's important that they not be labelled failures because they had no choice but to go to a not very good state school.

Of course state schools should be as well staffed as 'public' schools and state schools should be funded from taxes so that they are well staffed to offer proper levels of teaching and breadth of curriculum.

At present state schools are suffering not only from lack of funds from taxes, but also from imbalace of intake from disadvantaged parents as against intake from parents such as yourself who value education and can provide such as space to do homework and so on.

PECS! You ask why my son thinks his local state schools are not good enough for his children, but good enough for other children.

He does not think that, and I didn’t say he did. He thinks they are not good enough for anyone’s children. I agree.

Oh, if only all schools were good! That would certainly be the ideal. Unfortunately they aren’t. If only there was enough money to finance all schools well, pay and train all teachers properly. If only everybody thought education was the most valuable thing we have, and treated it, and those who purvey it, with the respect they deserve. Then we could begin to educate ALL our young properly. At the moment this is just not happening. Sad, but true.

Do you expect my son to send his children to an inadequate school just to prove a point? That would be irresponsible. He can (just) afford to pay. Moving to a London area with a good state school would be more expensive than paying fees.

Twice I fully expect people to disagree with me. I am well used to being a minority voice! I would not post on this type of thread if I wanted eveyone to agree!

You talked of the choices you made for the advantage of your kids and the sacrifices you chose to make. My point was that 1000s lived as you did without having a choice or having the cash to spend on education.
Choice is often bandied about in educational arguments but in reality there is little choice for the vast majority of citizens. It is a myth!
Of course we all have freedom of choice to behave in certain ways, follow religion or none etc etc. and I would not ever argue with that. Contrary to what Jane10 likes to suggest I do not support dictatorships!
I do however believe in equalling out life chances for young people and not maintaining the status quo as far as private and state education goes.

In Finland the state schools are so good very few parents want to put their children into private schools, but then they have:

no streaming or setting - mixed ability teaching
abundant help for anyone falling behind
no OFSTED ("we trust our teachers, having trained them to MEd standard")
teacher support networks
no homework - lots of after school clubs
testing illegal before the age of 16
adequate funding