Grammar Schools

As an ex council house kid living in a run down part of the country in the 1950s, with poorly educated parents who left school at 14 and who both worked in factories as there was no other choice, it was my privilege to pass to go to my local grammar school. It changed my life and made my family very proud and I have done well since, now owning a nice home outright with a good lifestyle in a lovely part of the country.

My two children both went to comprehensive schools and had a rubbish education even though they managed to be in the higher sets for most subjects. They also had one year in a posh private school when we lived abroad, paid for by the company my husband worked for . I think there is a place for private, grammar, technical schools and GOOD comprehensives. One type of school shouldn't need to exclude the other.

I assume all the socialists who are against private education and selection wouldn't be so hypocritical as to want to live in the private sector in a nicer part of town thenselves!!

I totally agree with you Coco. When I passed the Eleven Plus, I was totally ostracised by many of my friends who didn't pass and I could see exactly how they felt - written off and excluded from professional careers. I went on to have a career in journalism and then education but worked to help those adults who had often failed their 11 plus or had done poorly first time around. The successes those people achieved in later life very often changed their lives completely when they discovered that they were very far from the children who had been labelled as low achievers because of a few marks on an intelligence test.

My four children all went to comprehensive schools and all four have achieved excellent degrees with the youngest graduating tomorrow. It's a shame however to see the once excellent comprehensive school they attended now being placed in special measures. An entrepreneur, trying to make it into a quasi-grammar school by turning it into an academy, has only succeeded in destroying everything it once was by trying to impose 'traditional learning methods' - whatever they are.

A good education for all and for all abilities is a right and not a privilege which turns on the results of an IQ test.

To the enormous disappointment of my dad, I failed the 11+ my family’s humiliation was complete, when my cousin, who they’d always considered to be a bit thick, passed!

I quite enjoyed my time at the secondary Modern, but it was a dreadful school really, it was due for closure, the big shiny comprehensive was being built, and teachers were leaving in droves, I left at 15 to do O levels at college

I agree with those of you who say the Grammar Schools were great, but for every child getting excellent opportunities, three or four aren’t, and 10 is way too early to write children off

I went to a grammar school and was certainly not among the high flyers there. Nonetheless I applied for university and went for interviews at a couple. At one, I realised that the interviewee after me was someone I'd met briefly so we travelled home together. He went to the local Secondary Mod.
He got a place at uni, I didn't.

Septimia

Good for him! I don’t think anyone in the history of my school went to university, it was more a matter of whether you’d like to sew shirts or pyjamas, and most of the boys were destined to work on the land, the really bright ones may have gotten apprenticeships

At my secondary modern it was expected pupils would work in office, shop or factory. A few high fliers may have left at 16 after taking two or three GCEs but most of us left at 15 with no exams taken. I knew no one with an A level or anyone who went to university.
Both my children went to the local grammar school, both went to university but neither have made their fortune as they opted to work for the public good.

Silverlinings

My husband and I both went to secondary Mods, and felt we’d like to give all our children better opportunities and sent them all to independent schools, they all now have come back to work in the family business, but at least they had the chance

Sara, indeed a good education is never wasted. I did a degree in later life and many of my cohort at secondary school did well in the world of work despite low expectations from some staff.

One thing my children have which I certainly never had is confidence, they can all get along with anyone, I envy them that

The problem is that in theory they are great, and can be great, but in practice it’s very hard to apply the system fairly.

Streaming students tends to work pretty well, in general. Grammar schools are just a way of streaming such that more academic children can be challenged at the right level.

Quizqueen - as I'm sure you know, socialists want to pay a proper amount of tax, to fund education so that every school is a good school.
Of course our current unfair system puts parents in difficult situations. We give a regular donation to our GCs' school in order to help. Indeed I pay out for various causes what I think I 'should' pay in tax.
I am deeply grateful that my own children went to school in an authority that funded comprehensive education properly and that they had a decent education alongside a mixed bunch of kids.

I totally approve of streaming, one of my children suffered from being out of her depth, and that didn’t pull her up, it made her feel worthless and stupid, luckily we were in a position to move her before too much damage was done, I think maybe grammar schools are fine for a small percentage of very bright children, but there has to be a really good alternative, also some movement between the two systems, a child who isn’t exceptional at 11, may have made enormous progress by 13

I absolutely disagree with grammar schools.

I admit I am biased because I didn't pass the 11 plus but, from my experience, it was made very clear to secondary modern students that they were unfitted for anything other than shop or office work, or - at a push - nursing. Many of us bought into this notion but, on reflection, I feel I, and others, could have achieved a great deal more.

As others have said, we have never had a proper comprehensive system because there were - and still are - so many areas that retain grammar and technical schools.

Eloethan

I too am a “failure”

I agree pretty much with everything you’ve said, and I am a bit uncomfortable about seeing Grammar Schools rolled out again , but I think if we can offer a really good alternative, it’s alright to skim off a few exceptional children

But if we see a return of the Secondary Modern, that would indeed be a disaster for millions of children

Absolutely agree trisha - I was born in 1949. Failed 11+. Looking back, I know now it was through sheer nerves. All my close friends passed! I started sec mod a very lonely unhappy girl. Took me a long time to gain the confidence to want to achieve.

In 1986 I got my B.Ed.Hons degree (2.1). Just missed getting a first. All children deserve to achieve their full potential. I do hope Grammars do not come back. My final job, up to retirement, was Deputy Head of large city primary school and Head of the Unit within the school for deaf children.

jackfowler "Streaming students tends to work pretty well, in general. Grammar schools are just a way of streaming such that more academic children can be challenged at the right level."

I think there are enough posts here, including my first one, to prove that streaming at 11 hasn't worked for a huge amount of children. 11 year olds currently have the pressure of SATs. I'd hate to see that pressure increase.

Woodmouse

You are right, many children failed because of anxiety, it was built up for so long to be so important. Our primary school headmaster kept telling us “this is where we separate the sheep from the goats” and would then go on to explain how dramatically those goats and sheeps lives would vary

It was assumed I would pass, and I didn’t, I don’t think I was ever really forgiven, and I think my dad pretty much lost interest in me from then on

I’m not saying I could have passed, I’ll never know, but there were a lot of bright children at the secondary Modern, and some children not expected to pass did

All water under the bridge now, but being labelled a goat at ten, is pretty unfair

My daughter lives in a London borough with grammar schools. DGD (aged 4) is starting school in September & one of the topics of conversation amongst the mums is coaching for the grammar school entrance exams.

I failed my 11+ thank goodness I would not have done the work required so it was the local high school. I enjoyed school and went on to technical college learned my trade.
Grammar schools are great for those with an academic brain, two of my daughters went to grammar school, they are now accountants, the third daughter from high school, became a midwife, she was the only one to go to Uni.

My comment on current education is, the brightest kids are much better than my generation but the below average kids are much worse. In particular they are not prepared for work the way we were. So much for equality of opportunity.

One of my grandaughters was telling me at the weekend that she wouldn’t see her friend much in the holidays because she was being coached for grammar school, this is in an area where state schools are better than average, I hope it’s worth it

My GD starts at the local grammar school in September. Last year at this time she would be taking the 11+ almost as soon as she returned to school in September. She did some practice papers at home and that was all, unlike many of her friends who had been having private tutors for ages. She passed with a good mark, DS and DIL felt that it was on her own ability.
A teacher friend of theirs who works at the grammar school said they can pick out the tutored children. But she had her own son tutored!

Streaming as practised in the comprehensive schools I have known, gives children the chance to move between streams as they mature, and also the chance to be in different streams for different subjects.
Grammar schools, although they may stream internally, have established that at 11 (or in reality, 10) you are divided for the rest of your school career.

calendergirl

Well done to your granddaughter, you must be very proud of her, as indeed I would be.

I don’t want to take anything away from the very bright children, my concern is for the ones left behind

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