Foreign languages in UK schools - really poor offer and take up - WHY?

My theory is that the biggest problems people have with learning foreign languages are a negative attitude and not having good listening skills, rather than lack of intelligence. People need to listen carefully, internalise what they hear and have the confidence to repeat and manipulate the language they recall. A good teacher provides the opportunities for listening and reproducing language in an organised way.

I don't think Latin helps with young learners because few of them are interested in etymology or formal grammar. They might be able to learn list of verbs, but they need to incorporate those into meaningful utterances.

You’re right Callistemon but it is the Welsh Language Learners GCSE, tailored for them. We all had to sit the compulsory English Language GCE as first language even if it wasn’t IYSWIM!

Yes, I do swym.

You're right growstuff, pupils need an understanding of the workings of those dreaded verbs before they can manipulate and repeat the language in conversation. I remember when I taught in France the young children had their own French verb table books and then they would have to do dictation and written exercises to use them correctly. That was before they even tackled a foreign language!
I do believe there is a bit more emphasis on grammar in English primary schools these days, maybe that will help.

Don't start me on teaching in French primary schools! I'm afraid I don't have a positive impression of it.

I once taught a pupil whose parents had been living in France for two years. The girl had been at a French primary school and showed me her exercise books and reports. Her handwriting was beautiful and her reports were all positive, but her teachers hadn't realised she couldn't understand a word.

I had two years of literacy catch up and to start teaching her French from scratch. I've talked to French teachers, for whom differentiation is an unknown concept. They deliver and assess, but don't seem to adapt teaching to individuals. If the pupils can't hack it, tough luck!

(OK! I did get started!)

PS. I don't think pupils do need to understand grammar before they can repeat language. A good language teacher uses building blocks, just as the famous language teacher, Michel Thomas, did.

Take a sentence, drill it until it's known off by heart, then adapt,

eg. "I eat an ice cream" could be changed to "He eats an ice cream", "He ate an ice cream", "Do you like eating ice cream?", "Do you like eating pizza?" and so on.

At least they have the benefit of "redoubler* in France if the pupils haven't grasped it first time round!! Actually it used to surprise me how little stigma was attached to having to repeat the year somewhere along the line.

Do they still keep kids back a year on France? Poor great big things in a class of little uns?

Oops I see it exists.

The French exchange student we had was a pupil who had had to repeat a year. He spoke no English at all although many of his classmates chatted quite happily in English.
He refused to let a vegetable touch his lips and was very stocky indeed compared to my slim DC. It takes all sorts.

I should have said 'One exchange student' - there were others

They still have "redoublement" but it is no longer thought to be a good idea and used far less frequently than before.

It was the Blair government that dropped the requirement for a modern language at GCSE level - a very bad mistake IMO.

What I find hard to understand is the talk of needing to learn Mandarin now, or at least one often hears it said. For heavens' sake, if the likes of French, Spanish and German are now considered 'too hard' for so many to cope with, how on earth are they ever going to get to grips with Mandarin?

Having said all that, I do think it's harder for native speakers of English to get to grips with a foreign language. For a start, which are you going to pick? If you're (say) Japanese or Dutch or Swedish, and you're only going o be proficient in one, there's no contest about which to choose.

Also, in many countries, people are bombarded with English in many ways that just doesn't happen in the U.K. with any foreign language. Many years ago when visiting Hamburg, a dd commented on hearing English all over the place - plus in films and TV.

Disclaimer - in case anyone thinks I'm making excuses personally, in this family we have between the 4 of us various - - conversational to to fairly fluent - levels of six different languages.

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The poor provision is the reason for the poor uptake IMO:

Children that want to do spanish are only offered friench, children who want to do french are only offered spanish. Children intetested in non european languages get not provision all

In the first few terms at secondary school my eldest DG took Mandarin. She loved it and was becoming quite good. Then the teacher left and was not replaced. She has started German and is doing well. But it was such a shame that she had to change .

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Exactly BBbevan, if they get into a language in yr 7 then its not an option in yr 8 they get demotivated.

My DDs werent able to continue with the first language they started at school because of subject groupings. It puts them off!

DC3 had french throughout primary school and now in S1 he has french and Spanish. He’ll have the option of Mandarin in S3. I imagine it’s not a consistent picture across the UK - each LA will vary.

It's nothing to do with the LA (in England at least). Individual schools decide which languages pupils learn and for how long.

There's a shortage of Mandarin teachers, so a school needs to be very certain that it can offer continuity. There's actually a shortage of all language teachers, which is likely to become worse. There's already a drop in the number of EU nationals coming to work in the UK as language teachers. Understandably, teachers are reluctant to work in schools with a poor reputation and/or where there isn't adequate curriculum time to do the job properly.

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