White men won't teach (play on the movie title, White Men Can't Jump).

EllanVannin: Is it an excuse for them not being clever enough ? Plenty of dim middle class children achieve because their parents can throw money at their lack of ability. Also, plenty of very sharp working class kids (I have taught hoards of them) who are vastly let down by an underfunded education system.

EllanVannin: Pupils today are only as good as the teachers who taught them. Absolute tosh! Classes of 35 (and at times, two classes put together due to under staffing - YES, it happens, over 50 students in a double room) taught by one vastly overworked teacher. Pupils today are let down by lack of funding because well off families send their children to private schools.

EllanVannin: Teachers, to my mind, were far more clever in the 50's/60's! Without the need for technology which wasn't around then. Again, tosh. Teachers are under hugely increased pressure today. It used to be a manageable occupation. Now it is virtually impossible to give every student what they need. The hours and the workload, not to mention the public castigation from individuals such as yourself who know nothing about the conditions teachers have to work within, are the very reasons white men are not entering the profession. Why would they? They get more pay and kudos elsewhere... Oh, and if you think there is amazing technology in schools you are living in fairy land. There is little money for books, let alone fancy technology.

I have taught single sex classes before. Mainly boys to be honest. I am good at teaching disaffected students. I have formed some lovely relationships with groups of boys that were likely to end up in prison. Were they stupid? Definitely not. Were they given everything they needed to be able to succeed in education? Not a chance. I would have needed four years to get them up to a C (old grading) at GCSE. Two years was only enough to raise their literacy.

Well said GagaJo. Like you, I have taught hoards of working class children.

I'd add to the first part, that many of these children are let down by their parents who don't have aspirations for their child/children. As a very experienced Y6 teacher, I'd ask them what they saw themselves doing (work) when they left school. Regardless of gender, every year 10% or less would say university or a career that would involve further studies.

Elianne. In my role as a teacher, Deputy and later as a teaching consultant, I came across and worked with some very effective male heads but far more effective female heads. That is proportionately more.

A Deputy Chief Constable's starting salary is £114,427.95. I don't consider that a low rate of pay. A Deputy Head Teacher's starting salary averages at £47,500.

Many “caring” type jobs are dominated by women- teaching can be seen as an extension of childcare. There are now more female doctors than men, also new vicars are mainly women.

The best bosses I had before I retired from teaching were women. I don't think it matters if you are male or female if you have the capacity to be a good leader. I found it easier to teach teenage boys. There was nothing macho to them in intimidating five foot me. The six foot learning support teacher had problems though. But that's too simplistic. I like teenagers, I enjoy their sense of humour and their passion for life so maybe that came through? My subject was English and we didn't have a huge number of men in the department so I can see how men wouldn't be drawn to the subject. The marking load was horrible too, compared to other subjects and maybe that put men off.

I also am not keen on the idea of men being seen as better at managing behaviour, I don't think that sends a great message to children. I think children need male and female role models.

It isn't about men being better. It is about children needing a balance in their teaching, as in life. I am a rampant feminist and even I can see that.

Who said men are better or more effective at leadership, certainly not me? I merely stated there are some good ones in these rôles. And "balance" was actually a word in my very first comment, line one. Everybody, male or female, black or white, should bring a new freshness to the job and inspire their pupils.
I hated being Head, it took me away from the joys of teaching, it took me away from my own children growing up. I worked day and night and weekends, and just got on with it, never complained, because it was a vocation. I'm just so glad, however, that none of my own children followed me into this career, particularly my sons, and I would be hard pushed to persuade my pupils to do so too.

GagaJo

It isn't about men being better. It is about children needing a balance in their teaching, as in life. I am a rampant feminist and even I can see that.

GagoJo, absolutely!

I admit as the mother of boys, they sometimes felt like an alien species, one of mine was definitely a text book typical boy, the other more cerebral but nevertheless enjoyed the rough and tumble aspect that maybe is not so prevalent with girls. Whilst they had some really good standout female teachers throughout their school life there were also some women who taught them, who gave the impression that teaching boys was a penance to be endured.

At senior school, one male teacher in particular, a kind of Ross Kemp look alike, exuded a tough and robust manner which resonated well with his male pupils. He was a games master but also a form teacher, had a great ability to connect with the young male psyche and steer them though the mire of early teen years, maybe because that time of his life was still fresh in his mind. I remember thinking that he was what many of them, the boys, needed at the time.

That's not to say I think that there should be a one size fits all approach in the way boys and girls are taught, obviously there are nuances in behavioural patterns of both male and female children.

But people on this thread have talked about men coming in to sort out behaviour and this certainly happened in childrens services in the past. I have seen that happen in the past and it doesnt send the right message. I absolutely agree that children need male and female role models in teaching, and actually aldo in other types of childcare where the balance between sexes is much worse than in teaching.

The average salary would not be as attractive as some other graduate jobs. Also more women, like it or not, still are i/c childcare..which in school holiday time is a bit easier if you are working in a school. My DH was a teacher, as was/ am I . He always worked a second job during the summer, did a couple of evening jobs etc to make extra..especially when I was home with babies.

Rather than the debate becoming one of who is best at discipline- and I would say I've seen good and bad in both sexes, and had some excellent examples of how to handle difficult children from both sexes- could we look at why male teacher numbers are declining?
I was wondering if the absolute and strict planning and teaching guidelines put men off. The men I remember from my school days and some of the ones I met in my early teaching years were often quite creative and innovative in their methods. It was actually very memorable and valuable teaching, but it wouldn't go down well now. Perhaps women toe the line and fall in with the present requirements better.

I would be interested in why the fall seems to particularly impact on white men, I wonder of there was a specific 'drive' to attract people from the BAME community, I just cant really see what other reason there could be.

I can see what you mean Galaxy as that would reflect current society more.

Good point trisher, I agree. If I were a man I would want to rebel against all the rules, regulations and guidelines that came in at the end of the 90's. Restraints might not be popular with men. The teacher themselves should be the method and many males thrive on innovation and experimentation.

Never been that many male teachers, especially at primary level.
Nothing new really.

Because teaching isn't a high status, well paid occupation Galaxy. It is a trend repeated throughout history. Those at the top of the social strata want recognition and reward. There are intrinsic rewards in teaching, but very little in the way of extrinsic compensation.

You've only got to look at the insults thrown at teachers on Gransnet to see that.

I think teaching used to be seen as a good, high status profession - I’m not sure when it changed - possibly the 70’s?

Children need role models - people who are like themselves to aspire to, so in an ideal world teachers should be a mix of black, white, male, female etc.

Gagajo^ You've only got to look at the insults thrown at teachers on Gransnet to see that^
I wonder as well if men won't put up with the abuse and criticism teachers are subjected to? Do women accept it more because they are used to criticism, and are more interested and able to defuse conflict?

I think most men can put up with criticism as well as women do, but I don't think they could handle the lack of respect to the same degree.

It's not the criticism I see them objecting to it's the sheer unwarranted abuse you sometimes get which could if you responded to it lead to real conflict and actual fighting. Women tend to be less confrontational and will try to just walk away but some men wouldn't. I do know as well that some male teachers in primaryschools get away with saying things to parents (particularly mothers) that women teachers could never do. This sounds incredibly sexist but it is my experience. If it is due to men being more respected or just a rarity I don't know.

Hmmm or a bit of flirting with the male teacher by the yummy mummies! I've seen that before now!

Behaviour management is certainly an art. Some students only respond to strictness, others need a careful balance of respect and persuasion. And yes, as Trisher says, strategic ignoring of the occasional incident has a place.

Speaking personally, I can't bear verbal disrespect. Probably as much as any male teacher.

Does it matter?

As long as there are enough teachers, it doesn't matter what colour their skin is.

The fact that most schools now have two thirds female staff to one third male staff should be a concern, but if the increase of male staff are all from other ethnic groups than the normal British male, the best of British luck to them.

They will be providing good role models for the boys from the various different ethnic groups in their classrooms.

EllanVannin

How many women are bringing up children single-handedly because partners/husbands have scarpered ?
Many men simply can't tolerate children around the place. Lack of education in understanding that they're younger versions of themselves. It's an intolerant society.

Society has changed generally because there doesn't appear to be a facility now for male role models since women's lib.
Thousands of households no longer have a male " head of the household ". Which is why so many children are unstable

Wow! Seriously! If men (or women) can’t tolerate children then they shouldn’t have unprotected sex! Blaming “women’s lib” for poor male role models? And why should men be “head of the household”? Why don’t we have equal numbers of men and women teaching? Money. And Status. Generally men feel it is below them. More men in headteacher roles, highest in Uni, lowest in Primary. They get promoted to head because they have white male privilege. They don’t have to work part-time so they can do the school run for their own kids. White men promote white men.

Feminism fights for equality, something lacking and usually to the detriment of women.