Where were all the special needs students when we were at school?

adaunas

*Gagajo*, you need to report to the school governing body, or LEA, any school you are personally aware of, or even by hearsay, where children with SEND get no help.
A blanket statement like, “Although with all the financial cuts to education, the children still get no help.” is simply not true in my current, and fairly wide experience.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/may/13/pupils-in-england-waiting-up-to-five-years-for-special-needs-plan-says-ofsted

Maybe you should tell Ofsted about your fairly wide experience.

Growstuff take your patronising hat off. I could describe some of the autistic and severe ADHD traits that I observed but chose not to Some of the behaviour was extremely disturbing to observe at the age of 6.

Chestnut

I see the OP was strongly reprimanded for asking whether parenting might be responsible for any kind of childhood behavioural problem. I would say this perfectly possible, where alcohol or drugs are concerned, or where the parents are abusive, neglectful or mentally unfit. These things will affect a child's behaviour and who knows what will happen if the balance of their mind is disturbed.
The outrage at the OP asking whether parents might be responsible was uncalled for. In some cases parents may have caused their child to suffer mental problems of some kind.

I've witnessed parents from so-called "respectable" families who have no idea how to discipline children or bring them up with decent values. It's not just the so-called "underclass" who have unruly children.

blossom14 You seem to be confusing children with special needs with those from dysfunctional backgrounds.

ElaineI

In my primaries these children were barely taught much - not like now when each child has their own development and progression planned and assessed. In secondary there was an A stream which most children were in - 1A1, 1A2 etc, a B stream 1B1, 1B2 and 1C. If you were put there there was little hope of moving from it and sitting exams! This was comprehensive education!

Which era are you talking about?

EllanVannin

Society today is enough to cause anyone to display ADHD !

I find myself on a very short fuse at times because of the rank stupidity of so-called professionals who think they know everything when dealing with children.

In what way?

PS. I most certainly don't know everything about dealing with children, although a fair bit more than many people.

In my primaries these children were barely taught much - not like now when each child has their own development and progression planned and assessed. In secondary there was an A stream which most children were in - 1A1, 1A2 etc, a B stream 1B1, 1B2 and 1C. If you were put there there was little hope of moving from it and sitting exams! This was comprehensive education!

I find myself on a very short fuse at times because of the rank stupidity of so-called professionals who think they know everything when dealing with children

I am not sure of the point that you are making EllenVannin with regard to children with special needs?

Society today is enough to cause anyone to display ADHD !

I find myself on a very short fuse at times because of the rank stupidity of so-called professionals who think they know everything when dealing with children.

The Infant school I attended as a 5 year old in 1946 in Hitchin is now a School museum based on its Victorian roots. Believe me there were plenty of 'difficult children' and some of the teachers followed the Victorian methods of caning/slipper or sending one into the corner for bad behaviour.
I think like some others on here that children either learned to sink or swim in this environment. Some came from the local council estate( where I also lived) where it was quite usual to see fumigation teams going in to clear fleas and bedbugs. Some of them survived to go on to get to University.
I was lucky to be an only child and we moved to a new estate and a brand new School. Also even there, there were probably 10% in our class who needed special help ( but never got it ).
Out of a class of 40 there were only 3 of us who passed the 11 plus to Grammar School.
I spent most of my first 3 years at school absolutely terrified of the tough teachers and even tougher kids. Goodness knows how some of my raggedy arsed peers coped.

Is there really the need for such vitriol JaneJudge? The way I see it is that, as is so often the case in life, by asking questions we learn. Please teach us kindly.

Honestly, I wouldn’t expect more from the OP. I’ve read her posts elsewhere.

The outrage at the OP asking whether parents might be responsible was uncalled for

was it Cheshunt? have you got a child, grandchild with a disability or additional need? or do you work with people with disabilities?

Have you faced everyday prejudice and discrimination because of that?

I have had an absolute gutful of professionals and people blaming parents of children with disabilities for their children's problems

Many conditions we recognise now were not recognised then. In my 40s I was diagnosed as dyxpraxic, the same time as DS was dignosed. As a child I was just seen as clumsy, careless and lazy in the sense that my writing and needlework were poor because I was seen as unwilling to concentrate and really make an effort to do things neatly and tidly. I am also 90% sure I have ADHD, although, as yet, no formal diagnosis.

As a child I was 'Fidgety Phil who can't sit still'. the child who never paid attention because her mind was elsewhere, who was always talking, either unable to concentrate or hyper concentrating. constantly in trouble for speaking out of turn.

ADHD was first identified as such in the early 20th century, but not well known until the 1980s but dyspraxia was not identified as a specific problem until the 1980s.

I am sure there were many other children like me, from the number of adults I have met exhibiting similar behaviours.

I was attended a convent grammar school. There was a girl in my class with epilepsy, petit mal, and another girl who was deaf. In the year below there was a girl with learning disabilities. I believe her mother was close to the nuns. She was well behaved in classes and attended well and at times seemed to know a lot about odd little corners in the history and geography syllabus. Everybody accepted her and were kind to her.

I taught at the RNIB college in 1985. An absolutely lovely 18 year old girl, who had gradually lost her sight due to an inherited condition, had been stuck in her house from the age of fifteen because she lost her sight completely. Her sister had lost her sight earlier, at thirteen, and was also stuck at home. Her 'county' didn't make any provision for visually impaired students. She came to us and learnt to audiotype, use a speaking computer (awful voice called Frank), and she did her work experience in a bank. She gained confidence and started acting classes, my husband and I went to see her on stage in 'Under Milkwood'. I loved that job as the training changed people's lives, unfortunately the college moved up to Loughborough.

I see the OP was strongly reprimanded for asking whether parenting might be responsible for any kind of childhood behavioural problem. I would say this perfectly possible, where alcohol or drugs are concerned, or where the parents are abusive, neglectful or mentally unfit. These things will affect a child's behaviour and who knows what will happen if the balance of their mind is disturbed.
The outrage at the OP asking whether parents might be responsible was uncalled for. In some cases parents may have caused their child to suffer mental problems of some kind.

Wow antonia so smacking is not violence, for an ex teacher Im surprised to hear you say this
I m 76 I was NEVER smacked as I child I was never hit at school ( taught by both nuns and secular teachers) it didn’t happen I ve never smacked my children and none of my grandkids have ever been smacked
Smacking is a complete control and anger measure... if you are not able to parent or teach without resorting to violence you are showing your own lack of control
My closest friend is 84 and was a teacher and also a mother of 4 boys she never had to resort to violence in class or home
It’s an excuse for your own inabilities

I’m fairly sure that my dad is autistic. He is almost certainly dyslexic also. He was labelled as “thick” and as such he was pushed towards manual labour as a career path. He became a plumber and had a relatively successful life.
I think it’s important to realise that people had more job opportunities back then though, my dad left school at 14 and did his apprenticeship in a time where we still had a large industrial economy. Now as a more service based economy the need for literacy is far more apparent to obtain employment, which is why it’s being noticed more.
We noticed a lot of the “tics” my nephew has, my dad also has a mild version of - so the need to have schedule, obsessive counting, the inflexibility he has around change. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not debilitating, but it does affect dads life (and that of my poor mum at times).

I think the realisation that autism is a spectrum of behaviour also gives insight into why this wasn’t a thing years ago. The inability to recognise that each child is different and there isn’t a one size fits all solution - so many of these children (like my dad) who didn’t display bad behaviour, but weren’t neurotypical, were labelled as “thick”.

Sorry , just noticed what you recommended to Gagajo- I’m obviously not high functioning!!?

I don’t remember anyone being given any help at my school so I suspect anyone with SEND would have had a wretched time trying to keep up.Adaunas, it is still sometimes hard to get help from schools, my grandson is extremely high functioning ASD and the school say that as he is so far ahead he doesn’t require extra help, despite us repeatedly asking for help re sensory and emotional issues. Any ideas what we should do to ‘ force their hand’?

Where were all the special needs students when we were at school?

They were being undiagnosed, misunderstood and probably not learning much whilst being labelled as "thick!" The3y were losing self esteem, feeling useless and creating a self fulfilling prophecy of "being thick!" They were living up to the low expectations being put upon them!!

The primary school I went to, 60 years ago, had what was known as the "hall class" this was a group of about 12 children of mixed ages and abilities that were "taught " in the school hall by the PE teacher. We were jealous of them as they were allowed to play all day.

Cat, meet pigeons...

I believe every child is individual, and all have ‘special needs’ when it comes to teaching them. Some have needs that are more complicated than others, for sure. Good teachers of every generation have made it their business to get to know each child individually. Labelling children who deviate from some arbitrary ‘normal’ and pigeon-holing them with others who share some characteristics is a convenient way of demonstrating that teaching is ‘differentiated’. I don’t think this is helpful.

Gagajo, you need to report to the school governing body, or LEA, any school you are personally aware of, or even by hearsay, where children with SEND get no help.
A blanket statement like, “Although with all the financial cuts to education, the children still get no help.” is simply not true in my current, and fairly wide experience.

“Any “slow” children were helped , even by sitting them next to a “clever” child if it was possible .”

That I do remember at junior school, I didn’t think anything of it at the time, I was just asked to help Jenny with her writing, so I did, it seemed natural enough.
Corporal punishment, the headmaster was quite strict, there was quite a lot of rules, break too many and it was “the slipper”.
The boys who transgressed lined up on a Friday lunch time for their correction, their crimes, usually bullying or answering a teacher back. Those that moved up to secondary with me, were model pupils, I guess they learned not to get caught!.