Children not ready to start school aged 4

I am in total agreement with your last post DaisyAnne quiet unbelievable.

Same here DaisyAnne!

signed

A cruel parent

They used to have an Easter intake so children who were 5 later in the year could join then.
Don’t most children go to nursery or child minders now? These are all ofsted regulated in England and they learn through play, helped with toilet training and socialising.

I am beginning to find it quite disgusting that people know so very little about how large swaths of their fellow citizens live.

Like I said, they must be living under a rock.

Or a bridge.

My son's birthday is 1st August so he started school a month after his 4th birthday. I did worry about whether it was too soon as he was an extremely quiet/sensitive boy (selective mutism also played a part) but as time went on, he never struggled with the work and actually thrived - his summer birth did not disadvantage him in any way.

He went off to the University of Leeds to study Law last September, having achieved 3 x A* in his A levels so certainly didn't suffer from starting school too early!

Not a popular statement but appallingly bad parenting is the culprit I'd say in 99% of situations. We have all witnessed a total lack of discipline/guidance at street level alone so what the heck is allowed/not being addressed behind closed doors is scary. Teacher acquaintance has voiced her horror at children as old as six not being able to use the toilet properly! And she's saddened by the neglect casually practiced by couldn't care less parents and that doesn't address the real abuse either, just the attitude that it's everyone else's job to train their children, not theirs!

Remember that old saying quoted to parents' stressing about potty training? "You never see a child going to school in a nappy" .....hmmmm

growstuff

Same here DaisyAnne!

signed

A cruel parent

I'm such a horrible parent that the first time DD went to playgroup aged 3 she sobbed when I went to fetch her.
I asked what was wrong, had someone been horrid to her? She said No, she wanted to stay there for ever!
???

Ps we did get together with other families and children before that so she hadn't been an isolated or miserable child!

I've never heard that Mummer but I did hear a similar phrase. It was "many parents worry but they are usually fine by the time they're 21". Putting parents at rest (and raising a smile) was designed to take the pressure off the child, I believe.

Mummer

Not a popular statement but appallingly bad parenting is the culprit I'd say in 99% of situations. We have all witnessed a total lack of discipline/guidance at street level alone so what the heck is allowed/not being addressed behind closed doors is scary. Teacher acquaintance has voiced her horror at children as old as six not being able to use the toilet properly! And she's saddened by the neglect casually practiced by couldn't care less parents and that doesn't address the real abuse either, just the attitude that it's everyone else's job to train their children, not theirs!

Ah, those "couldn't care less parents" where would we be without them to enable us to show proof of our virtues?

Absolutely, DaisyAnne! I'm surprised some posters are actually able to breathe from the rarefied air up there on their moral high ground.
Meanwhile, back in the real world...

Mummer

Not a popular statement but appallingly bad parenting is the culprit I'd say in 99% of situations. We have all witnessed a total lack of discipline/guidance at street level alone so what the heck is allowed/not being addressed behind closed doors is scary. Teacher acquaintance has voiced her horror at children as old as six not being able to use the toilet properly! And she's saddened by the neglect casually practiced by couldn't care less parents and that doesn't address the real abuse either, just the attitude that it's everyone else's job to train their children, not theirs!

Do you have any reasonable suggestions to make as to what can be done about this, for the sake of those children, and their own future children?

Whilst some children are ready at 4, the option to delay them going to school for one year, when their birthdays fall between May and end of August should belong to the parents. My son was not mature enough to be at school at 4 years old ( born 25 August). This put him at a disadvantage throughout his entire schooling, he could never keep up, and as a consequence it has impacted his adult life. In Europe they start upto 2 years later. Too late for some, but perfect for those who are not mature enough and need that extra time in their development.

Everyone is different and that goes for young children,too. Some are ready at 4 ,some not. I don’t particularly see that it is the parent who is responsible, just how the child learns and what they have experienced in their short lives.

The 'one salary modest home' argument could not really be applied today. When we bought our first home, the house cost the sum total of our two annual salaries. It was a solid, bay windowed three bedroom 1930's house with a 20 minute commute to London. A house of that size and in the same area now is at least £600,000, and how many couples are each earning £300,000 p.a?

Oldnproud

Mummer

Not a popular statement but appallingly bad parenting is the culprit I'd say in 99% of situations. We have all witnessed a total lack of discipline/guidance at street level alone so what the heck is allowed/not being addressed behind closed doors is scary. Teacher acquaintance has voiced her horror at children as old as six not being able to use the toilet properly! And she's saddened by the neglect casually practiced by couldn't care less parents and that doesn't address the real abuse either, just the attitude that it's everyone else's job to train their children, not theirs!

Do you have any reasonable suggestions to make as to what can be done about this, for the sake of those children, and their own future children?

I do have a suggestion. Bring back Sure Start and family centres where parents who are struggling (often because their own parenting left much to be desired) were given the understanding and support that they needed to help them become good parents.

The Tories cancelled it all. Short term thinking that will come back to bite us all.

Luckygirl3

Oldnproud

Mummer

Not a popular statement but appallingly bad parenting is the culprit I'd say in 99% of situations. We have all witnessed a total lack of discipline/guidance at street level alone so what the heck is allowed/not being addressed behind closed doors is scary. Teacher acquaintance has voiced her horror at children as old as six not being able to use the toilet properly! And she's saddened by the neglect casually practiced by couldn't care less parents and that doesn't address the real abuse either, just the attitude that it's everyone else's job to train their children, not theirs!

Do you have any reasonable suggestions to make as to what can be done about this, for the sake of those children, and their own future children?

I do have a suggestion. Bring back Sure Start and family centres where parents who are struggling (often because their own parenting left much to be desired) were given the understanding and support that they needed to help them become good parents.

The Tories cancelled it all. Short term thinking that will come back to bite us all.

I completely agree, Luckygirl.

I think it is far too damaging for the children concerned for measures not to be in place to try to improve the situation where necessary.
All children deserve a fair start in life, even those whose parents are, for whatever reason, less than perfect, and Sure Start helped with that.

Some of the activities learnt with grandma - unfortunately grandma is now having to work till she is 66

I feel for all the children starting school just after 4. As many have pointed out. “They were 3 until last month! It wouldn’t be any better if the school year started in January either.
It’s in the papers again today. Bring back the staggered (3 term) starts based on birthday.
We could do it
- if schools were paid for how many in the total intake for year, not bottoms on seats in September. That’s what it boils down to.

I’ve done it and made it work, though there were complaints from parents of spring and summer born children because they thought their child should be able to start in September, and complaints again at the end of the year, that their child had to go into Y1 after only 1 term in Reception and they didn’t think their child was ready.

Parents would like it
-if they were allowed to choose when they thought their child was ready and choose which term to start -you’ve seen the different views on here-all valid points of view.

Some parents would not like it
-if they had to adhere to the term their child was due to start but they want to change their mind because Zoe’s best friends from nursery have gone to school and Zoe isn’t happy and Mum feels excluded from the group. (Have heard this excuse.)

-if the teacher teaching the children was allowed to say child was not ready for school because they were 3 last month or any other reason.

-if their autumn intake child hadn’t got a place at an oversubscribed school because it was being kept for Einstein who starts in January and Melody who won’t start till Easter.

- when playground mums talk about their children in the class who are doing things that Zac isn’t because he’s only just started at Easter.
If anyone has the perfect answer, fair for the child, right for the parents, fair for the other children in the class and right for the teacher (yes I know it’s their job) I’d love to know what it is.

My DH’s birthday is 28th August so when he started school in the September-1949!!-he was only just 5. He failed his 11 plus but passed his 13 plus-I would hope these days he would have been kept back a year.
He’s a very talented artist-which his teacher spotted in that first year and went on to university and taught art all his life

Newquay

My DH’s birthday is 28th August so when he started school in the September-1949!!-he was only just 5. He failed his 11 plus but passed his 13 plus-I would hope these days he would have been kept back a year.
He’s a very talented artist-which his teacher spotted in that first year and went on to university and taught art all his life

As mentioned earlier, due to govt league tables, pupils have to be in their own school year.

ajswan

Septimia

We used to complain, when I was teaching (1970s), about children starting school unable to tie their shoelaces. Fortunately no longer a problem as there are alternative fastenings.

I do think - from what my daughter-in-law and sister-in-law have said - that it is true that many children are unprepared at 4 years old. In many countries they start school much later.

Here, I think part of the problem is that both parents need to work to be able to pay all the bills and they don't have much time to spend with their children, even if they want to. In other cases I think there are some parents who just think that talking to the children, toilet training them etc. is someone else's job.

NO both parents don’t always need to work. It’s because they want two cars and holidays and giant TVs. Some parents bung their children in nurseries when they are tiny, how cruel is that!! If you cannot give children the time, then don’t have them. And it’s terrible that ‘they don’t have much time to spend with their children’. Why should teachers have to do the extra jobs in teaching children the things that parents should. Four is much to young to send them off to school and babies and toddlers should not be in nurseries.

The average UK salary is about £30k, which means a take-home monthly pay of just under £2k. The average UK house costs £300k, London over £500k, South East £370k (2021 figures)
Energy bills through the roof, NI up, Council tax up, inflation etc (Most of which could not have been foreseen when baby was born?)
Do the maths!
Btw you'd be lucky to rent a 2 bed flat round here (SE England) for under £1100/month. London £2k

School grades in the US start at age 6, kindergarten at age 5. In my day, LA Maternelle in France was half days at 3 years old. Children were expected to be completely out of diapers at 2, and toilet training started at 1 for girls and 1 1/2 for boys. Accidents aplenty, of course! By 4 I could read, write my name in joined up writing, and add a bit. I was considered advanced but not that unusual.

In the US preschool

Letters and Sounds in Preschool
As part of the preschool curriculum, kids will learn to recognize and name all 26 uppercase letters and some lowercase letters (lowercase letters are harder to learn at this age). They can identify their own first name and write it out, along with other letters and meaningful words like Mom, Dad, and love. Preschool children will also develop a connection between letters and sounds, and they’ll know some of the sounds that letters make.

Numbers and Counting in Preschool
A large part of the preschool curriculum is learning what numerals 0 to 9 look like and naming them correctly. Counting is a separate skill that starts with memorization; kids will memorize the order of numbers and say them. . . as they "count" objects

Colors, Shapes, and Objects in Preschool

Preschoolers will continue to learn the names of colors, basic shapes, and body parts.

Sounds very much like the EYFS in the UK except that we introduce lower case letters before upper case, more use to the beginner reader sitting by an adult and picking out familiar words.
I don’t know if the US has workbooks for parents to do at home with their pre-school and kindergarteners the same as in Europe and the UK.