Children not ready to start school aged 4

I don’t think 4 is too young to start school. For some small children being at school is a place of safety away from chaotic home lives. There may not be books, toys or an outside play area at home. Just a variety of adults in and out of the house either ignoring them or even taking too much interest in them. These are the children in the reception class taught by my daughter and yes some are still in nappies, not because of special needs. Reasons given for still being in nappies include “ she’s still our baby” and strangely the father not wanting his little girl not to grow up. Yes it was reported.
I do feel that disposable nappies are one reason that children are potty trained later. When you had a bucket of cloth nappies to wash and dry each day you certainly wanted to finish with nappies as soon as possible.
It is very easy to say my child is not ready, but waiting a year or multiple entries may not be beneficial to other children in the class. If they start together the will progress at they’re own pace. Not all children find school easy whatever their age.
I have an end of August born child and she is now teaching a reception class in a poor area.

I wonder if all parents are aware that their child doesn't have to start school until the term after they're 5? Reception class is optional.

I now believe 4 and a few months is far too early for many. 3 of mine went to playgroup (one began school at 4 and 5 months - when I knew no better and thought he was 'ready' and absolutely hated it) - and the 4th just stayed at home with me until she was five. (She had plenty of child company and attention from me.) She settled in just fine and excelled at school.

They should have a play-based environment, I'm sure, until the age of seven - as that works well in other countries.

When I volunteered in a reception class, there were a few kids who weren’t potty trained. They’d been in pull ups at home and so they were just able to pee in these without stopping their games or interrupt their telly programme. The parents often thought the child had a problem with holding the urine, but they clearly hadn’t been trained consistently. They had put the nappy back on to go out or if they didn’t want to risk an accident indoors. It’s hard to train a child in pull ups because they don’t feel wet or uncomfortable if they go in it.
Basically busy distracted parents not putting the time in before they go to school.
Same with eating with cutlery as the kids often eat on their own on the sofa in front of the tv. No one making sure they sit down and are using cutlery rather than eating with fingers.?

SusieWilkinson

MaizieD

Goodness, teachers have been saying this for years.

It's such a shame that the tories closed down Sure Start.

The children's centres that were previously Sure Start still exist in many areas, it was down to the local authority that some were closed. I worked in one until very recently, and they worked on the same principles. Unfortunately, due to Covid-19, the service offer was recently through zoom, so the socialisation, etc, was not there, and educators were less able to identify families needing extra support.

The Conservatives under Cameron started the closures. Cameron said they were being used by families like his not by those who ‘needed them’.
Successive Conservative governments have cut the funding to local authorities. For reasons beyond my understanding, our former mill town had greater cuts tha Kensington and Chelsea.
Many l.a.s were forced to close excellent family centres because the cuts meant they couldn’t meet statutory duties.

I started school at four, and can rember being so keen to go. My own DS was four in August and started in a reception class in September. He loved being with other children, didn't seem to find it taxing, and all those years ago nobody seemed to think that this was too soon - he was far from being the only summer born child in his year. I really don't see that he was denied any 'parenting' - I was there when he and the other children got up, and there when they came home, and spent all the holidays with them. DS was the youngest, and I didn't start work (part time) until he went to senior school.

Born in October I was nearly 6 when starting school. I could already read and write with joined up letters. I was bored silly at school. Only asked the answers to questions when no one else in class knew the answers and felt that the teacher hated me because he ignored me so much. I was the only child in my class to pass the 11plus. My education started then!!!

My eldest dgc was a July baby.

He struggled to even stay awake for the whole school day in reception. He wasn't ready for homework, either, and simply refused to do any.
He struggled a lot that year, and his acquisition of reading skills was slow-going, even though he had started school with an extremely extensive vocabulary.
Seeing so many classmates make much faster progress didn't do anything for his confidence.

Within two years, 'literacy' was his strongest skill, amd still is (he's year 6 now), but I am not sure that he has ever fully recovered from that knock to his confidence, and I suspect it still holds him back in some ways..

It’s not all play till 7 in all European countries. I have worked on an exchange in an école maternelle (Moyenne section), where the 4 year olds were being taught spoken English. I was told I must say eet eez a boll and we play on zuh beesh, presumably my English wasn’t good enough. They were also learning letters and sounds, handwriting and reading and some number work.
Parents abroad buy workbooks to do at home with their children just as many do over here.
Maternelle is compulsory from 3 onwards, but it’s free for 24 hours per week, unless you go to a private one. I know we get 30 hours free per week here but only till the child starts reception or reaches statutory school age. What causes most problems is choice of school. Your choice of school is not guaranteed anyway, whatever any government says. If you defer entry, a place is not guaranteed and this especially matters of the school you want is over-subscribed.
Re playbased education.
Play based in EYFS is already happening here at schools where I have worked or been a governor, but I accept there’s no guarantee that is true everywhere. It would be good if there was a higher staff pupil ratio, especially with the increasing number of children with speech delay and short attention spans, but actually, schools often have better provision for helping with that than some preschool childcare providers.

Where I live in Scotland the cut off date is Feb 28th. Any child who is 5 between 1st March and 28th Feb stats school that August so the youngest a child starts P1 is 4yrs 6 months. Also any child who has a Jan or Feb birthday has the option of an additional year in nursery and can then start school at 5 yrs 6 months. Preschool Educational visitors can also request that any child has an additional year in nursery if they have additional needs. I taught P1 for many years and there was often quite a difference between the youngest children and the oldest children in a class, not always but generally. There is huge pressure on primary teachers to get children jumping through attainment hoops and sadly I often had children who had started school in England when they were barely 4 yrs old and I saw how they struggled. They really should have still been in nursery. I really wish children didn't have to start school at 4.

Septimia

We used to complain, when I was teaching (1970s), about children starting school unable to tie their shoelaces. Fortunately no longer a problem as there are alternative fastenings.

I do think - from what my daughter-in-law and sister-in-law have said - that it is true that many children are unprepared at 4 years old. In many countries they start school much later.

Here, I think part of the problem is that both parents need to work to be able to pay all the bills and they don't have much time to spend with their children, even if they want to. In other cases I think there are some parents who just think that talking to the children, toilet training them etc. is someone else's job.

NO both parents don’t always need to work. It’s because they want two cars and holidays and giant TVs. Some parents bung their children in nurseries when they are tiny, how cruel is that!! If you cannot give children the time, then don’t have them. And it’s terrible that ‘they don’t have much time to spend with their children’. Why should teachers have to do the extra jobs in teaching children the things that parents should. Four is much to young to send them off to school and babies and toddlers should not be in nurseries.

LucyW - I wish we could adopt the Scottish system in England - it sounds more humane.
I can remember a teacher in reception complaining to a parent that her twin daughters born at the end of August weren’t quick enough at getting changed for PE…….. she said to the teacher, well they were still three only two or three weeks ago, now they’re four everyone’s got different expectations.

4 yo is way too young for full-time school. I worked in a primary school. Two out of three of my children started school a term before they were 5. My 3rd was a Feb birthday and started in the Sept, so 4.5 years. I witnessed children who were born in Aug, starting school at barely 4yo. They were behind for the remainder of the primary school years. Shocking! Poor children. 5+ is plenty old enough. It's a long day for them. I wish we were like the Scandinavian countries, ie 7yo.. I feel our education system is very harsh actually. By the time the kids are 16, they are burnt out and no further forward to their European counterparts.

ajswan I used to feel the same as you about day nurseries until my granddaughter started nursery at 11 months. She was at nursery 2 1/2 days a week initially, I used to pick her up once a week and got to know the staff well and saw how the place was run. The nursery has a lovely atmosphere and the staff were very loving and welcoming. My granddaughter benefitted greatly by being at the nursery and there was never a day when she didn’t want to go……. she started school this September and drags her feet everyday!
My son and his wife aren’t working to get a big TV etc - they only have one old car and go to DILs parents house for holidays -( luckily DILs parents live in Devon).
The house they own is just about big enough for a family of four but it’s quite a squash, but they can’t afford to move at the moment.

I witnessed children who were born in Aug, starting school at barely 4yo. They were behind for the remainder of the primary school years. Shocking! Poor children.
My DGD wasn't behind at all!

I do wonder about the differences in maturity though.

It's a long day for them.
I agree with that, Copper
They get very tired

ajswan

Septimia

We used to complain, when I was teaching (1970s), about children starting school unable to tie their shoelaces. Fortunately no longer a problem as there are alternative fastenings.

I do think - from what my daughter-in-law and sister-in-law have said - that it is true that many children are unprepared at 4 years old. In many countries they start school much later.

Here, I think part of the problem is that both parents need to work to be able to pay all the bills and they don't have much time to spend with their children, even if they want to. In other cases I think there are some parents who just think that talking to the children, toilet training them etc. is someone else's job.

NO both parents don’t always need to work. It’s because they want two cars and holidays and giant TVs. Some parents bung their children in nurseries when they are tiny, how cruel is that!! If you cannot give children the time, then don’t have them. And it’s terrible that ‘they don’t have much time to spend with their children’. Why should teachers have to do the extra jobs in teaching children the things that parents should. Four is much to young to send them off to school and babies and toddlers should not be in nurseries.

Wow, how judgemental is that! I'm lost for words...

I started school the September after I was 4 , as did all my siblings in the 1960s. I’d been to various pre schools before that. I couldn’t read but I could count and don’t remember any toilet concerns. My kids went to state nursery from 3rd birthday (Wales was better at that sort of thing) they were definitely toilet trained by then and already recognising letters and numbers, by the time they entered primary school at 5 they had some reading skills.

Blondiescot, I’m with you in being lost for words at the number of ill informed judgemental posts on this thread

NO both parents don’t always need to work. It’s because they want two cars and holidays and giant TVs.

On what planet is that happening then ajswan? Most of the young families that I know have to both go out to work to pay their mortgages and bills. From April, they'll both face a 1.5% increase in their National Insurance contributions in addition to all the other increases that we're all facing. And if they're unlucky, and have no family to offer any child minding support, they're also facing a hike in nursery fees that already cost an eye watering £7,160 a year for 25 hours a week.
Yep! You're right! Those kids just don't know how damned lucky they are.

I was 5 in May and started school in September . I couldn’t read or write . Soon picked it up though .
My DD was 4 in august and started school 3 weeks later in September. She couldn’t read or write and she soon picked it up .
We moved to a new town in when she was 6 and after a few weeks her teacher asked me what age had she started school when I told her she said she could tell as DD was ahead of the rest of the class. They soon caught up though

Far from being judgemental I believe all the people saying parents have a duty to bring their child up, not farm them off to others in nurseries, childminders and nannies are 100% correct.
Why have children if you are not prepared to make sacrifices so that the child has parental supervision?
We lived in a home we could afford on one salary. If you must have the material things in life then by all means work, just don’t bring children into this world that you don’t have time for.

I worked partly because I wanted to give my boys the example of women working outside the home. I think its often a disaster for boys who turn into men to not see that example.

Espee your view on what’s judgemental isn’t the same as mine. There’s a huge difference between parents who neglect a child’s emotional, physical and developmental needs and parents who work.

We lived in a home we could afford on one salary.

Well that was just lovely for you esspee; how privileged were you! Sadly the world has changed in the last 40 or 50 years and it's now almost impossible to run a home on one wage. Anyone who thinks that young families today are all raking in high salaries, stuffing their homes to the gunnels with 60" plasma tv's and American fridges must be living under a rock.

ajswan

Septimia

We used to complain, when I was teaching (1970s), about children starting school unable to tie their shoelaces. Fortunately no longer a problem as there are alternative fastenings.

I do think - from what my daughter-in-law and sister-in-law have said - that it is true that many children are unprepared at 4 years old. In many countries they start school much later.

Here, I think part of the problem is that both parents need to work to be able to pay all the bills and they don't have much time to spend with their children, even if they want to. In other cases I think there are some parents who just think that talking to the children, toilet training them etc. is someone else's job.

NO both parents don’t always need to work. It’s because they want two cars and holidays and giant TVs. Some parents bung their children in nurseries when they are tiny, how cruel is that!! If you cannot give children the time, then don’t have them. And it’s terrible that ‘they don’t have much time to spend with their children’. Why should teachers have to do the extra jobs in teaching children the things that parents should. Four is much to young to send them off to school and babies and toddlers should not be in nurseries.

I am beginning to find it quite disgusting that people know so very little about how large swaths of their fellow citizens live.