Children not ready to start school aged 4

All children are unique. There is no way to make child development go faster. Children like everyone have been through a very challenging time during the pandemic. There will always be children who can cope with formal schooling at 4 but a vast number will not. What has changed apart from the sad destruction of Sure Start, is that children do things earlier and earlier. If their experience is restricted then they will need more time to learn through high quality play. Schools need to be ready for children not the reverse. The EYFS covers the Reception year but sadly in many schools this practice has been lost in a push for formal phonics, number etc when children are simply not ready. Remember it’s easier to consider how old children are in months as under fives. A 48 month old has a year less experience than a 5 year old.

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Sadly home schooling, though great in principle is not always a success for the children in terms of enabling them to join the education system at a later stage. It probably sounds a bit simplistic, but social skills and mixing with others are skills more easily gained when actually with many other children.

There are heaps of other opportunities for socialising and mixing with other children. Home schooling doesn't stop children accessing formal qualifications when they are ready, and for some children schools cause real damage.

This is down to the parents or whoever is looking after them if both parents work.
If they are in a nursery then surely the nursery is at fault if such basic skills are not being taught and parents don’t work all the time, perhaps interact with them instead of using the tv as a babysitter.
It is a parental responsibility to prepare their children for life, stop trying to shift the blame onto other people, that seems to be the biggest problem today, it’s always someone else’s fault and someone else’s responsibility

I don't think that the 'literacy hour' is a 'thing' any more. trisher.

I don't see any problem in children being taught some basic number concepts and phonics in YR. I think it's adults who make a fuss about 'formal learning' when for children it's just another part of the intensive 'learning' process about every aspect of life that children go through in their first few years. They don't distinguish between 'play' and serious stuff...

How many parents and grandparents spend time teaching toddlers to count or to recite their alphabet (ugh..)? Isn't that 'formal learning'? I note that one poster said that their DGC learned to read at their Montessori nursery. Was that depriving the child of 'play'?

I think that a big part of the problem in EY is the fact that schools have had their budgets cut so much in real terms that they don't have the adult support needed to work with a large number of children with diverse needs. TAs mostly went by the board a long time ago and the few that are left are thinly stretched. How can a teacher run a play based curriculum and cope with the needs of practically nonverbal and inadequately prepared children with minimal support? Or the children who just struggle because of their age...

Hithere

Some countries start at 3. I think it is way too young

The US does not start at 7.
At 7yo, they are in 2nd grade.
Optional schooling is prek at 4 and all kids go to kinder at 5.

You and I are both wrong, Hithere.
I know where we lived the children started school aged 7.

It seems this is a state matter and there is a lot of variation. Education is compulsory over an age range - some states starting at five and some as late as eight. They apparently end "school" education somewhere between 16 and 18 - again, depending on the state.

I thought from my knowledge of living there it was the same in every state.
Maybe you live/lived there Hithere but in another state?

Brownowl564

This is down to the parents or whoever is looking after them if both parents work.
If they are in a nursery then surely the nursery is at fault if such basic skills are not being taught and parents don’t work all the time, perhaps interact with them instead of using the tv as a babysitter.
It is a parental responsibility to prepare their children for life, stop trying to shift the blame onto other people, that seems to be the biggest problem today, it’s always someone else’s fault and someone else’s responsibility

While that is true, and I accept that there are parents like that, it's hardly the child's fault and there is no reason why any child should be disadvantaged through no fault of their own. As I said before, we don't live in a perfect world where every child has two perfect parents who put the child's needs first and do everything they can to prepare them for nursery, school etc.

Wow there are some ill informed judgemental posts. Sure Start wasn’t the state doing the parents job, as some seem to think.
It was one of the things the Blair government did that benefitted children and families. Cameron started and subsequent Conservative governments completed its destruction.
The research in indisputable. Investment in early years benefits wider society in the short and long term. But then, who needs experts when some grannies know better

Depends on where you live if there is one big intake in September or intakes each year.
My niece in a different county started in the September of the school year that she turned 5 and was the youngest of her year as her birthday is at the end of July whereas my son, 3 months older had to wait a term until January as he turned 5 in March. It all balanced out in the end!
It also depends on what the Pre school or nursery do - some will have small groups of "rising fives" that they teach how to write their names and how to understand requests etc ready for school. Although the group that my son was in didn't have the chance to use scissors at any point as another brat , when given a pair to use while making a card for her mum, promptly wandered over to the curtains in the hall and decided to cut a hole in them !

Nottingham city council are proposing to close 3? Sure Start centres to save money that they have spent unwisely.

My granddaughter will be six when she starts kindergarten. Her birthday is in September 6 and you have to be 5 before September 1 in NYC. She will have had 3 years of a private preschool so she will certainly have an advantage. There is nobwat she would have been ready for kindergarten at 4.

I think I might be the only one to say I let mine watch tv and videos. I was often on my own with my husband working away and had no family nearby and I really don't think it is a big deal. I can't be the only 'muddled through' Mum on Gransnet! I have far more patience now with other peoples small children and that's because I only have them for a few hours!

I used to access the sure start centre, it was open to all - as it should be in the same way family support charities and organisations support families from all backgrounds.

I'm 66, when i went to school at 5, i could read, form letters, definitely use the toilet, could listen, pay attention etc & i do not remember any child in my class having toilet issues.
my son went to nursery school age 3 [he was definitely ready] he could use the toilet, could pay attention, he had begun to read [although had some difficulty as he was diagnosed as dyslexic] most children are ready for school earlier than 5, many are ready from 3 onwards. children are always eager to learn, hence all of the 'why?, how?' questions. children do need to play, but learning can be & should fun too. I worked in schools, and early years education was fun for the children. As educators, we worked hard to ensure that learning was an enjoyable exercise. Also all of the children i worked with were toilet trained before school. Educators are not there to teach how to use the toilet, to change nappies, or to teach how to use a knife & fork, those are really the duties of a parent, or whoever is designated as 'in loco parentis'. All children should be toilet trained, & be able to use a knife & fork before being enrolled in school unless there is a reason [statemented, learning difficulties etc] Other than those reasons, i think parents are ducking their responsibilities, & failing their children before their children have even had a chance.

this issue about children not being toilet trained was well before the pandemic. Parents can give the excuse that they are busy with work etc but how often have i seen mothers on buses with their faces buried in the phone and no eye contact with the child. I presume that the mobile phone takes over the mothers when she gets home too. Yes I do blame the women as male carers appear more interested and talk about what can be seen out the window.

JaneJudge - I’m a muddling through grannie these days. It reminds me of when I was muddling through with their mummies

I think posters forget that curriculum changes over the years, even more over decades.

What kids now are asked to do is not the same as decades ago.

School and education is clearly way more competitive.

My DIL worked full time teaching and DGD went to a childminder and nursery. She was toilet trained at 2.5 yrs and at 3.5 yrs knew all her phonics and could read simple sentences
DIL set aside half an hour each evening to teach her with phonic cards from age 2. Childminder did help a lot with toilet training, dressing herself by using dressing up clothes and lots of drawing and painting.
It just takes a small amount of time each day but a lot of parents are happier playing on their phones while the child watches cartoons.

Summer babies are allowed to start part time.Seeing as they are usually just 4 seems a good idea.GS did this for a short while then wanted to go full time.

Any child who is not toilet trained etc should not be allowed to start school ! What lazy parents they must have. Teachers are
qualified professionals, not childminders or nannies !
Unfortunately we live at a time where many people consider themselves «entitled» and so not take resposibility for the children they chose to have.

I used to do some mother and baby classes for Sure Start. They were completely full every week - unfortunately, mainly with teachers on maternity leave. The mothers who would have benefited the most from attending just couldn’t be bothered or persuaded to come along. This was in a run down area and the staff were all lovely and very proactive but trying to get through to many (not all) of the mums who needed help was impossible.

My children went to Steiner School started aged 7 yrs
Before that they were in Steiner kindergarten from age 5 yrs
It’s a wonderful education

I agree there are quite high expectations on very young children. The reception class used to be more about imaginative play subtly linked to learning now teachers have to follow a much more rigid curriculum linked to assessment and data collections. Most reception aged children are tired out by the afternoon I remember we used to put our heads down on the desk for a little siesta in the first year at infants, the day always ended peacefully with story time then home. My dad taught me how to write my name before I started school & we could dress/undress & soon learnt to tie shoe laces. We did the same with our children. There are quite a few children in primary school now who struggle to dress themselves or use cutlery properly. Parents need to try and teach some basic life skills and also help with reading at home as there is not enough time to teach this in school and it just adds to the pressure on the child if they’re struggling.

Lockdown hasn’t been kind to these children

cc

Sadly home schooling, though great in principle is not always a success for the children in terms of enabling them to join the education system at a later stage. It probably sounds a bit simplistic, but social skills and mixing with others are skills more easily gained when actually with many other children.

No, home-education isn't always a success but neither is "regular" school.

But what it most definitely doesn't mean is that home-edders don't mix!!

Furthermore, plenty of home-ed children do actually join regular schools... Some start later, some have a flexi-school arrangement. Some choose to start in the teenage years or maybe at 11, some wait till 6th form. Some children even drop in-and-out of home-ed and find that suits them.

Most parents I know who have done any home-edding at all are acutely aware of the subtle changes in their children's needs and support them accordingly. Obviously, home-educating parents are just people - so there is plenty of differences in how they function one to another - but the one thing they have in common is the hundreds of hours they have spent with their children.
And no.... this does not mean cooped up with only their own family. There are thousands of home-educated children meeting up for exciting learning opportunities every day.

Please understand that home-ed is as varied as the children and families doing it.

I totally agree. My daughter was born on the 29th August and was supposed to start school on the 3rd Sept (many years ago now as she’s nearly 30!) but I held her back and she started mid school year. Throughout those months I had visits from social services etc saying that she should be at school. When she did start she was fine but I still feel that those few months earlier, she was too young.

My heart sinks as I hear Ofsted are on the case. If they could just call (preferably unannounced) and sit in on the odd class, watch the pupils during breaks, chat with the staff and look at some work of their own choosing , they should be able to see what sort of school it is. Perhaps a look at the admin side of things, have a look at complaints would also be useful. However many of the inspectors turn up looking like they want to find trouble, they seem to enjoy the chance to be intimidating and often have some aspect of the school experience on their radar. They can be just as unhelpful in nurseries where staff are often younger and less able to stand up for themselves. On top of all that the visit is expected and probably prepared for in the weeks leading up to it. What help can all of this be ? It's box ticking. Children are so different in their development - we need them to be learning life skills, of course, and hopefully some common sense and respect for others but charts and reports don't tell you much. My GCs nursery send out reports and have graduation ceremonies. I used to have regular chats with staff when mine were small - I didn't need to read an annual report and the staff probably didn't have time to write them anyway. It all seems crazy. Sorry for going on!