So is the idea now that the state just provides for skills in reading, writing and arithmetic for free?

Are people saying that the existing Key Stage 1 and 2 curriculum is to be abandoned? If it is, then which bits?
www.gov.uk/national-curriculum/key-stage-1-and-2
Can people post some evidence of concrete proposals from the DfE?
Obviously with cuts to education budgets we have lost enrichment activies and the peripatetic music service over the last years. Covid has made many educational visits, trips and residential experiences impossible.
But changes to core and foundation subjects? Where is the evidence?

Key Stage 3 and 4 here.
www.gov.uk/national-curriculum/key-stage-3-and-4
My GDs at their mixed ability academy also did the middle years baccalaureate; some terrific stuff in that.
www.ibo.org/globalassets/digital-toolkit/brochures/myp-programme-brochure-en.pdf

DaisyAnne

Good post.

We are heading for the American model. Our government has enough support to make it happen. I am not in any doubt where we are headed.

There's nothing we can do about it - it seems to be what people want. An equitable society is viewed as too close to Communism or the Far Left and has been rejected.

It is what it is. People don't believe that we're heading to the libertarian right, but we are, by stealth. But I'm almost past caring. Sometimes, you just have to admit defeat.

growstuff we understand your views, but what do you suggest should be done to alleviate the situation?

Your current posts are all helpless and hopeless. These children deserve more than that.

Decent funding is what is needed. Bring back Sure Start and enhanced nursery provision. Improve teacher pupil ratios, pay support staff properly. Stop messing around with the curriculum, fund proper professional support for improving teaching, learning and assessment. Fund increased provision for pupils who need extra support. Trust teachers and find ways to improve morale, recruitment and retention. Get rid of selection and build on the best practice of successful comprehensive schools.
I could probably go on....
I am still not sure what the OP is about. Fund the core curriculum and have foundation subjects on pay as you go? I would believe a lot of this government but that feels a bit of a stretch.

If only the State could get everyone to an acceptable reading, writing and arithmetic level.

Good point from luluaugust.

They were talking about the government telling schools to concentrate on the 3Rs

John Major's government "Back to Basics". Remember that?

I do. And then we had the literacy and numeracy strategies and standards improved.
In 2019 we were here at Key Stage 2:
"65% of pupils reached the expected standard in all of reading, writing and maths (combined) in 2019, up from 64% in 2018".
So all these years later we still have 35% below expectations.
You can't just vaguely talk about "acceptable standards". You have to know what you are trying to achieve and provide support the under-achieving students to get there.

Baggs

^If only the State could get everyone to an acceptable reading, writing and arithmetic level.^

Good point from luluaugust.

It's interesting that some who left school illiterate do learn to read at adult literacy classes later in life.

Wanting to learn for whatever reason is a great motivation. For a job, to read to their children, just to make life easier.
People fail to learn for all kinds of reasons and IQ is not always an indicator.

Callistemon21

Baggs

If only the State could get everyone to an acceptable reading, writing and arithmetic level.

Good point from luluaugust.

It's interesting that some who left school illiterate do learn to read at adult literacy classes later in life.

Wanting to learn for whatever reason is a great motivation. For a job, to read to their children, just to make life easier.
People fail to learn for all kinds of reasons and IQ is not always an indicator.

True.

My mum gave individual adult literacy lessons to people who had lost out for whatever reason at school.

I think they were free here as well, which is a good idea.
This was years ago when my friend took them as a volunteer.

You have to provide support the under-achieving students to get there.

Yes.

When I was working in school improvement (second half of my career) I was involved in research about raising attainment. The biggest single factor was attendance. I dread to think how catastrophic Covid has been for disadvantaged pupils and pupils of of lower ability. They will need sustained professional support to catch-up.
You also have to factor in the impact of poverty, hunger and inadequate living conditions on pupil progress. If you are hungry you don't learn.

I went to primary school in the 70s and I don't think we did much more than 3 Rs (and the maths was a bit dodgy). I find most people under 50 are illiterate and innumerate.

grandtanteJE65

The sad truth is that a lot of 16 year olds leave school, barely able to read properly.

This means that they have not benefited from other subjects on the school syllabus, as you basically have to be able to read to even do maths these days, when what we called "problems" at school - the kind of excercise where you had to read a certain amount of information to tackle the sum in question is exceedingly prevelant.

A pupil with poor reading skills is handicapped in practically every subject, as to study them you need to be able to read the relevant information.

This may be the background for the goverment "telling teachers to concentrate on reading, writing, and arithmetic". I don't know, not having followed the debate.

If my guess is correct, this does not mean that children will in future not be taught anything else, but ought to mean that by the end of Primary 1 or 2 every child, whether dyslexic, or unable to get help at home, because parents are semi-illiterate will be able to read and do basic arithmetic, as well as be beginning to express themselves in writing, thus having a base to build all future education on.

This is the biggest load of twaddle I have ever read. My dyslexic DS is the youngest of 3. The rest of the family including my other 2 DSs are avid readers. He isn't. When he dropped out of school at 14 it was partly because his skills and talents remained unrecognised.
If a child was blind would you expect him to see if you just kept showing him things?
If a child couldn't walk would you expect him to start if he went to enough PE lessons?
Dyslexia is a disability. Disabilities need special provision. That special provison includes presenting work in different ways accessing information in different ways, using the best modern technology can offer to help.
Higher eductaion has recognised this for some time.
My DS has greater aural skills than mine. He uses his computer to read complicated information and he can remember much of it and certainly more than I can.
Literacy is a skill it is no measure of intelligence or ability.

trisher, the post did mention children with dyslexia. It's good that your son has such excellent support from you but I'm sure you would agree that not all are so fortunate, and also that not all children with poor literary skills are dyslexic. I'm also sure we know that literacy isn't (necessarily) a measure of intelligence or ability but without the support they need to achieve the best level of literacy that they can, and access everything to which literacy opens doors, children with less able parents than you will be written off, most unjustly. I expect those of us who are older remember children who the teachers wrote off as 'slow' but who probably had other skills that they weren't allowed to access. I can certainly remember one such boy back in the 50s whose parents were illiterate and he was written off, but a kinder chap with so much to offer and nicer, kinder parents you couldn't hope to meet.

I can't believe anyone who knows anything about education is still talking about arithmetic. I started teaching in 1975 and it was Maths by then. ? And sweeping statements about illiterate school leavers are irrelevant without current data.

Sorry to disagree with most but if you can't read, write and don't have a reasonable grasp of maths you can't access most subjects, science geography and history come to mind. How do you read music if you can't count? Read the T. V. times or know if you are getting the right change when shopping.
When I had reluctant readers I used to ask if they wanted to drive, the answer was, of course, then I would say well how are you going to know where you are going if you can't read the road signs and the miles on them.
I worked in a special school with children aged 10/11 the main aim was to get them to understand the 3R's. Then the other subjects were added and could be followed and expanded.
Art and P.E. were used to show that you didn't have to be academically good to show your talents.
I might add this was 30+ years ago and things have probably changed now.

Yes things have changed Yammy.
You don't learn to drive by learning all the theory before you get into a car. You learn by applying your skills in a practical context. You learn to drive by driving.
Literacy and numeracy skills also need to be acquired in a variety of contexts.

Mamie

I can't believe anyone who knows anything about education is still talking about arithmetic. I started teaching in 1975 and it was Maths by then. ? And sweeping statements about illiterate school leavers are irrelevant without current data.

Well that's at least me told. I think others are aware that, when people comment on "reading, writing and arithmetic" it's more of a reference to what we all know as the "Three Rs". I imagine that is how most people read it, not as a point of educational one-upmanship.

As well as castigating those you believe to know less than you do about education you could add spice to the post and attack from further back in history and tell us we should be saying "reading, reckoning and wroughting". I'm sure some could make a good argument for that being a good basic curriculum. I would happily argue, with a suitable astringent tone, that it was the Victorians that led us astray when they dropped the "wroughting" and that we should see it as an intrinsic part of the curriculum.

Meanwhile, you can happily enjoy the points you have scored with "maths" until the education world thinks they are not scoring on the knowledge of subject names any more - and change it.

DaisyAnne it isn't just about arithmetic rather than maths.
It is about people making sweeping statements about illiteracy without reference to actual data in relevant key stages. I worked in school improvement at a senior level for many years and have observed hundreds of lessons. I know how good UK schools and teachers can be and I am afraid that I get cross on their behalf when people give negative opinions without evidence.
I would still like to know where the idea in your OP comes from that foundation subjects are to be dropped.

I would still like to know where the idea in your OP comes from that foundation subjects are to be dropped.

Then do what we all do and a) read the thread and/or b) do your own research on small government and views of the New Right in the Conservative Party. I am really not sitting in your classroom, nor am I a child.

DaisyAnne

^I would still like to know where the idea in your OP comes from that foundation subjects are to be dropped.^

Then do what we all do and a) read the thread and/or b) do your own research on small government and views of the New Right in the Conservative Party. I am really not sitting in your classroom, nor am I a child.

A Gransnet thread isn't always a reliable source of information.

and views of the New Right in the Conservative Party
Could you provide some reliable links to reports and proposals please.
New Right was a term used 30+ years ago.

This is all so vague.

Starting an alarmist thread with no information or links and then telling posters to do their own research does not inspire any confidence in the truth of the allegations.

Mamie

Yes things have changed Yammy.
You don't learn to drive by learning all the theory before you get into a car. You learn by applying your skills in a practical context. You learn to drive by driving.
Literacy and numeracy skills also need to be acquired in a variety of contexts.

I don't agree with the comparison with driving either. My father an engineer taught me to drive . He insisted I knew how the engine and other mechanics under the bonnet worked before I was allowed in the car. Then he let me sit in the car showing and telling me what the actions were doing. Then when I knew I was allowed to turn the ignition.
I know even today you do your theory before your practical .
It's no good knowing how to steer a car and reverse if you don't know what all the signs mean.