So is the idea now that the state just provides for skills in reading, writing and arithmetic for free?

trisher

^It isn't going to happen. The country needs an educated workforce.^
Actually that''s questionable. Education encourages questioning challenging and developing thinking skills. Not something a governent really wants
And modern technology requires a small proportion of very clever highly qualified and able people. The rest of the population just needs to consume and use things. Educating them might encourage them to start questioning what they are consuming and who is selling it to them.

I agree with you. That is exactly what's already happening.

Callistemon21

Hard Times by Charles Dickens

Don't remind me Dickens! That was on the GCE syllabus, I hated it until I saw it televised many years later.

... me too!

Please don't tell me you haven't seen it already happening.

I'm afraid I have to tell you that no, I havent seen it happening.
However, I am not as closely involved in my DGC's education as their parents are and I was with my DC.

With some teachers in the family, too, I have not heard of this.

Hard Times by Charles Dickens
Don't remind me Dickens! That was on the GCE syllabus, I hated it until I saw it televised many years later.

trisher

^It isn't going to happen. The country needs an educated workforce.^
Actually that''s questionable. Education encourages questioning challenging and developing thinking skills. Not something a governent really wants
And modern technology requires a small proportion of very clever highly qualified and able people. The rest of the population just needs to consume and use things. Educating them might encourage them to start questioning what they are consuming and who is selling it to them.

"NOW, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!"

Mr. Gradgrind is a school superintendent who promotes an education based on facts alone (no talk of imagination or emotions, please)...

Hard Times by Charles Dickens

It isn't going to happen. The country needs an educated workforce.
Actually that''s questionable. Education encourages questioning challenging and developing thinking skills. Not something a governent really wants
And modern technology requires a small proportion of very clever highly qualified and able people. The rest of the population just needs to consume and use things. Educating them might encourage them to start questioning what they are consuming and who is selling it to them.

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

I thought education was devolved so it’s all down to your First Ministers in Wales, N.Ireland and Scotland.

Yes, it is.

However, if Westminster only provide enough cash to fund The Three Rs who will make up the shortfall?

It isn't going to happen. The country needs an educated workforce.

Parents will have to Callistemon. Please don't tell me you haven't seen it already happening. It won't affect us but it will become more and more of the way of life for our children and their children.

Germanshepherdsmum

Anyone got a crystal ball?

You don't need one. This government told you what they intended to do. Whether you voted for or against them you were told how they see the world and how they would achieve it.

GrannyGravy13

I thought education was devolved so it’s all down to your First Ministers in Wales, N.Ireland and Scotland.

Yes, it is.

However, if Westminster only provide enough cash to fund The Three Rs who will make up the shortfall?

It isn't going to happen. The country needs an educated workforce.

The trouble with a “rich” curriculum is that it makes you sit through a lot of lessons that you don’t have any interest in. And some that you positively detest. ?

Everyone who enjoys Art or Music or whatever thinks it would be sooo beneficial for everyone ?

Some of us liked the academic fact stuff. My marks n Embroidery all came from the written dissertation on Jacobean Bkackwork. And no it wasn’t enough to get me a pass?

Mine did too.

I thought education was devolved so it’s all down to your First Ministers in Wales, N.Ireland and Scotland.

They do enjoy it!

Not much chance of that Callistemon ?

Lucca

I’m being dense but what is this referring to ?

Me too?
Is it a Government report (there have been some very odd ones lately which have been brought to my notice).

Does that mean my DGC won't have to learn Welsh?

M0nica

Trisher it is not a question of either or and I would include wordplay, and puzzles as well as singing games and a lot of the things you mention as part of teaching literacy, as do most teachers.

But when many children today are still leaving school functionally illiterate. Cut off from society, work and any chance of improving thir circumstances. I know where my priorities out.

Hanger down on their literacy etc so that they catch up with their contemporaries as soon as possible then they can benefit from everything else that school has to offer.

My DS left school a functional illiterate as you so thoughtfully term it. He dropped out at 14 because he couldn't stand the pressure or the lack of understanding. Literacy is no measure of intelligence. Nor is it a measure of ability or talent. It's a skill which is hard for some to master. Schools should be about educating the whole person because there are children for whom literacy is a real problem and trying to stuff it down their throat instead of offering them the opportunity to expand and develop skills in the arts or practical skills is actually counter-productive. It's the reason we have so many children dropping out or being excluded.

Trisher it is not a question of either or and I would include wordplay, and puzzles as well as singing games and a lot of the things you mention as part of teaching literacy, as do most teachers.

But when many children today are still leaving school functionally illiterate. Cut off from society, work and any chance of improving thir circumstances. I know where my priorities out.

Hanger down on their literacy etc so that they catch up with their contemporaries as soon as possible then they can benefit from everything else that school has to offer.

M0nica

What is the point of teaching children all the really educational and educating subjects if they cannot benefit from it because they cannot read or write fluently and have no sure grasp of numeracy?

As others have said, the disruption caused to children's education by COVID has been immense and it is the most disadvantaged children have suffered most. So the most important thing in education at the moment is to make sure that these children get all the help and attention they need to get their basic skills up to the expected standard so that they can benefit from the wide range of subjects and broader education so many school offers.

I did not hear the original interview but reading what she has reported in this thread, I think her interpreation of it is perverse.

The point is that arts subjects develop areas of the brain and thought processes which are valuable in everyday life, provide stimuli which encourage the development of those basic skills and contribute to a child's well being.
The idea that a child needs to be able to read to appreciate language is manifestly wrong, children love word plays and puzzles long before they can read and write and a child who has dificulties in those areas may find release and a reason to go to school in music, art or dance lessons.

trisher i do not know where you live but because my DGD's excellent state primary school had a high proportion of children from disadvantagd backgrounds, they received all kinds of extras in the drama and music line. Including being involved with the educational side of major theatre companies, including the Royal Shakespeare and a group of children from schools involved in this scheme, including a special school had the opportunity to visit Stratford upon Avon and appear in a production at the Other Place.

Their secondary school, also a state school, specialises in the performing arts and children from the school performed with professional orchestra and children from, again a wide range of schools across the region.

My grandchildren, entirely state educated in schools that are not nice schools in nice areas, have been offered opportunities to do all kinds of creative activities that leave both myself and my children envious as they are being offered so much that we could not even dream of.

Good post Dickens

Opinion not option, flipping autocorrect…

What is the point of teaching children all the really educational and educating subjects if they cannot benefit from it because they cannot read or write fluently and have no sure grasp of numeracy?

As others have said, the disruption caused to children's education by COVID has been immense and it is the most disadvantaged children have suffered most. So the most important thing in education at the moment is to make sure that these children get all the help and attention they need to get their basic skills up to the expected standard so that they can benefit from the wide range of subjects and broader education so many school offers.

I did not hear the original interview but reading what she has reported in this thread, I think her interpreation of it is perverse.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

In that case our GC must be the exception trisher because in the space of one week (Wednesday to Wednesday) our 7yr old GC will have participated in an inter-schools football tournament (in school time) a music festival along with four other schools at local large church (in school time) and the schools science fair (after school)

This is a small state primary school in a commuter belt village

Unfortunately, music festivals and science fairs don't guarantee quality.

We shall have to disagree on that.

Catching a child’s imagination and allowing them to broaden their horizons is in my option a good thing.

Most primary school teachers still do three years' training.

eazybee This is about more than timetable constraints at GCSE. It's about secondary schools with weak pupils not offering a full range of subjects and restricting, for example, the number of foreign languages pupils can study. In some cases, weak pupils aren't allowed to a foreign language at all and are directed to maths, English and science because it looks better in the school's results. This is how it was years ago. Weaker pupils did the "essential" subjects (probably including cooking, needlework and woodwork), while those who were considered brighter had a richer curriculum.

Pupils have always had to make choices at GCSE level because of timetabling constraints.
When I was teaching (ten years ago) and as far as I am aware, now, pupils had to be taught netball, rounders, hockey, cricket, football, rugby and short tennis. Also swimming, gymnastics and dance. There are after school clubs for running, volleyball and five a side. Another village school.

Teachers believe they do not have the resources and skills to deliver lessons containing art and design, music, drama and dance, and they feel that their school does not prioritise learning in these areas.
That comes from teachers, and I would hazard a guess that it is from the ones who do a PGCE, which is nine months training maximum . Quite impossible to pick up all the necessary knowledge in such a short time, but I covered all those areas in my three year training.

GrannyGravy13

In that case our GC must be the exception trisher because in the space of one week (Wednesday to Wednesday) our 7yr old GC will have participated in an inter-schools football tournament (in school time) a music festival along with four other schools at local large church (in school time) and the schools science fair (after school)

This is a small state primary school in a commuter belt village

Unfortunately, music festivals and science fairs don't guarantee quality.