Why do British royal children not go to state schools like the Scandanavian royals?

Oh yes, I am fully aware of all the above. Seen them with my own eyes. But it's just not 'comparable'- as there are finances to get professional outside help, and the class sizes are so much smaller. Oh and holidays so much longer too.

As said, I have extensive experience of both systems.

Fleur in my experience there are also problems relating to children in the private sector that most teachers in state schools might not be able to handle either. Things like homesickness and bedtime tears at boarding school, also many services children's fears when their parents are away for months on end, unrealistic expectations from pushy parents and excessive pressure etc. It isn't an easier option teaching in a private schools, just different.
As I said before, teachers in both settings usually do their very best. The pastoral care in independent schools is of the highest standard.

This is a statement that goes beyond an opinion, I'm afraid, and my opinion about it is not rude, sorry.

''I would guarantee that many who are complaining about the state schools rushed off to vote "Brixit" in the last election with no thought at all about what the party in power had done and would continue to do to schools''

I can't prove anything, and I am sure that despite your 'guarantee' there is no way you can prove this is correct.

Anecdotes are anecdotes. In my experience, I have far more relatives and acquaintances who did vote for Brexit who send their children to private schools. And far more who voted remain, who are passionate about all children deserving a good education.

Again, anecdotally- in my experience, teachers who teach in State Schools are normally totally dedicated to the job, and have to deal with children, and problems related to those children, that most teachers in private schools just would not be able to handle.

Anecdotally too, I know many teachers who just could not cope with teaching in state schools, due to huge class size, with students who have many SN and other issues, and difficulties with discipline, who opted out to go and teach in private schools for an 'easy' life - I never blamed them.

Chocolatelovinggran

Several posters have used this phrase. I was asking if they had data for it

I'm not sure what data you could find. You may find this interesting, although it is only one person's view. www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2012/dec/05/state-independent-sector-teaching-differences

It seems the teacher did see differences, but ones that made comparing the schools difficult. Good or bad differences? I think each person would have to make their own choice. It's certainly better to do that than to be told what our opinion should be.

There is no need to be rude Fleurpepper. It is not nonsense; it is an opinion - mine. Generally, I report personal attacks - against anyone.

All over the country, people will be complaining about state education. I believe many of these people will have voted Conservative without a thought to education, the NHS or anything else in the last election. If you have proof that I am wrong, then I am happy to consider it.

Chocolatelovinggran

I have asked before on this thread is there data to support the suggestion that independent schools have " better" staff than state schools?

It's impossible to compare.
In terms of qualifications and skills, enthusiasm and dedication, teachers in independent schools are no better than those in state schools.
They might however accomplish more in a working day because classes are smaller, there are fewer discipline problems, resources are plentiful, teachers have greater support and they are free to devise their own programme of study without having to strictly adhere to the requirements of the National Curriculum.
The inspection procedures in private and state schools are different, so it would be difficult to find comparable data.

Several posters have used this phrase. I was asking if they had data for it

What do you mean by better???

Many teachers who teach in privte schools would be totally unable to teach in many state schools, for so many reasons.

Being a good teacher has little to do with academic knowledge, for instance.

I have asked before on this thread is there data to support the suggestion that independent schools have " better" staff than state schools?

And the accusation of 'dictating' or 'being a dictator' - how is saying that all children should get a decent, quality education amounts to that? Again, just nonsense.

DaisyAnne

Fleurpepper

Mollygo

I hold the Conservatives responsible for allowing the referendum.
According to Google, around 75% of Conservative constituencies voted leave.
Interestingly, Googling also shows that the majority - 60% of Labour constituencies also voted for Leave.

Exactly- DaisyAnne should really do a bit of research before throwing accusations around.

I don't care if some Private/public Schools have polo facilities of golf courses- but I do care that every child should have access to a decent education, given in classes not over 25, and with rooves that don't fall on their heads.

That 7% (and yes, my own grand-children and close relatives over generations) do go and have gone to top Private and Public schools, including the best of boarding schools- and I have visited many.

Going back to GD's brilliant GCSE results- her exams were marked by outside examiners who had no idea that she has had 100% timetabled classes throughout Covid, has quiet space to work at home with her own computer and access to books and family who are specialists in most subjects. She has worked so hard- and we are so proud. But she is part of that 7% that has benefited from a massive advantage, because her parents can afford it.

Accusations? What accusations.

This onw, which is absolute nonsense

''I would guarantee that many who are complaining about the state schools rushed off to vote "Brixit" in the last election with no thought at all about what the party in power had done and would continue to do to schools''

Fleurpepper

Mollygo

I hold the Conservatives responsible for allowing the referendum.
According to Google, around 75% of Conservative constituencies voted leave.
Interestingly, Googling also shows that the majority - 60% of Labour constituencies also voted for Leave.

Exactly- DaisyAnne should really do a bit of research before throwing accusations around.

I don't care if some Private/public Schools have polo facilities of golf courses- but I do care that every child should have access to a decent education, given in classes not over 25, and with rooves that don't fall on their heads.

That 7% (and yes, my own grand-children and close relatives over generations) do go and have gone to top Private and Public schools, including the best of boarding schools- and I have visited many.

Going back to GD's brilliant GCSE results- her exams were marked by outside examiners who had no idea that she has had 100% timetabled classes throughout Covid, has quiet space to work at home with her own computer and access to books and family who are specialists in most subjects. She has worked so hard- and we are so proud. But she is part of that 7% that has benefited from a massive advantage, because her parents can afford it.

Accusations? What accusations.

As for Royal children- yes, tradition, and security.

At my GCs schools, there are many children of senior politicians, and in senior posts, including Consular, etc- and security is paramount, and privacy.

Mollygo

I hold the Conservatives responsible for allowing the referendum.
According to Google, around 75% of Conservative constituencies voted leave.
Interestingly, Googling also shows that the majority - 60% of Labour constituencies also voted for Leave.

Exactly- DaisyAnne should really do a bit of research before throwing accusations around.

I don't care if some Private/public Schools have polo facilities of golf courses- but I do care that every child should have access to a decent education, given in classes not over 25, and with rooves that don't fall on their heads.

That 7% (and yes, my own grand-children and close relatives over generations) do go and have gone to top Private and Public schools, including the best of boarding schools- and I have visited many.

Going back to GD's brilliant GCSE results- her exams were marked by outside examiners who had no idea that she has had 100% timetabled classes throughout Covid, has quiet space to work at home with her own computer and access to books and family who are specialists in most subjects. She has worked so hard- and we are so proud. But she is part of that 7% that has benefited from a massive advantage, because her parents can afford it.

I hold the Conservatives responsible for allowing the referendum.
According to Google, around 75% of Conservative constituencies voted leave.
Interestingly, Googling also shows that the majority - 60% of Labour constituencies also voted for Leave.

You cannot blame others for their ignorance in a world where acquiring information is easy.

You cannot blame others, for voters ignorance in a world where acquiring information is easy.

I'll try again MayBee. 'Brexit' was an example. The current government is to blame for the ravaging of State Education, not parents who chose to go elsewhere. Blaming them is a distraction for those who do not want to accept where the blame lies. It is like blaming those who can afford more expensive clothes for the poor going naked when the poor put in the government who set the rules that make them poor.

The people who vote for Conservative governments often, but not always, do so because it gives them a sense of the agency they feel they lack. Brexit did this; they believed they had "got back control". It's a myth, just as the idea they can vote in a government that is "tax cutting" and thus have control is a myth. These people do not think about what will happen to their jobs, the NHS or, in this case, education. You cannot blame others for their ignorance in a world where acquiring information is easy.

If you expect clarity from me perhaps, in future, you could be clear in your posts rather than launching an attack on me as you did recently.

What’s brexit got to do with it? Now, if anyone can introduce brexit into a discussion it’s usually me but, in this case you’ve lost me.

MayBee70

No. Some of us just think that every child has the right to do the best that they can educationally regardless of how well off their parents are. And as long as some people can afford to give their children the best education possible it won’t bother them that many children have to go to underfunded schools where they don’t have the opportunity to do certain subjects, may not have outside areas to play sports ( it was Thatcher, I believe, who started selling off school playing fields). When my daughter was still teaching (at a state school) at one point she didn’t even have a desk. There was a shortage of books. Plus there’s the cronyism that results in many government ministers going to the same private school. Childrens educational achievements should be based on their intellect not how rich their parents are. And if they’re not academic then everything should be done to help them discover what they are good at.

What are you suggesting that 7% of parents can do about this than 93% can not, MayBee? This is completely illogical.

I would guarantee that many who are complaining about the state schools rushed off to vote "Brixit" in the last election with no thought at all about what the party in power had done and would continue to do to schools. I may have used both state and private schools but I did not vote for what this government is doing.

Thank you for such a thoughtful post Candelle.

Just a couple of comments. Firstly, if someone takes another person's post, turns it on its head and represents it as if the poster had said something entirely different, then that is a form of gaslighting, and I cannot think of any poster as clever for doing that.

I looked up the schooling of doctors. I could only find a 2016 article, but I doubt the figures have changed significantly. The BBC, in an article on "Elite Backgrounds", explained:

The trust said that of the country's top doctors, 61% were educated at independent schools, nearly one-quarter at grammar schools (22%) and the remainder (16%) at comprehensives.

This disparity is not the fault of those in private education - all 7% of them. It is the fault of governments and those who voted for them. Those who voted for them have often been the parents and grandparents who are complaining. It is also not just the children who want to run the state schools detrimentally and against the staff. Many of their parents are also ready to pick a fight, both verbally and actually.

I will make a quick return to gaslighting. It is reframing the truth to blame the few who chose to work effectively and parents who decide how to spend their own money. The ones to blame are the governments and their supporters, who have made things worse over the last 12 years.

Candelle

Volver and others clearly have just one view of education and drum on and on. This is:

Independent school parents and children = bad.
State school children and parents = good.

Such tosh.

Volver, over and over again, you have taken what has been written and manipulated it (cleverly, I'll give you that!) but attempted to turn it to your advantage.

Independent school parents would love not to have to pay (again) for their children’s education but they do for one reason... It's better for their children - for many different reasons. It suits their families. Simple.

Before you once again get on your high horse, yes, ALL schools should be of a similar standard but life isn't fair. Should be, could be, but isn't.

Please tell me: you live in the United Kingdom. Someone of your age living in sub-Sahara Africa would see what you have as unobtainable and unfair. You have so many advantages, courtesy of the land of your birth and they do not. This is obviously unfair. Would you give everything you have up to try to make the situation more equitable? Life is not fair.

We should all be extremely thankful that we are where we are and work to try to improve the system instead of carping (jealousy?) on about those who are able to purchase (for that's what an independent school is, a commodity) something better.

Yes, of course we all agree that state schools should be able to reach the same standards but that will not happen unless more money is put into the education system (as with the NHS, this sector runs on much good will from within). It needs better buildings, better staff and general facilities.

Before you try to be disingenuous regarding my last statement, you ignored my previous comment regarding the two policemen who have to guard against troublemakers as children board the bus home from school. Does this happen at an indie school, I doubt it? As with every organisation, there are some wonderful hard-working teachers but... and you probably will not accept this, there are some lazy sloppy teachers too, ones who let children run riot in class making it difficult for any who want to work. Not in an independent school.

Last Saturday, the Times ran an article 'Rude pupils driving out teachers, says strict head'. To precis, children's aggressive and rude behaviour has demoralised teachers to the extent that many have ended their teaching careers. The head in question states that there is a power struggle in some schools with the children wanting to run them. There is no politeness or courtesy from children to staff and the poor behaviour I witness as the secondary school turns out (seemingly around 2.00 pm. What happened to a full school day?) echoes this.

You asked ‘What if some of the doctors and dentists of tomorrow are in a state school? Do you not think that educating them brings a little bit of benefit to you? Or will you just accept treatment from a medic who went to fee-paying school?' Apart from this being a very silly statement (does one really ask one's doctor or dentist where they were educated?) perhaps you do, as you would not want to be treated by one who was independently educated, who knows your rationale.

I thought that you may be interested in the fact that some state educated children who have been accepted onto rigorous university courses have to take a foundation year or have remedial lessons. No, I can't quote statistics or point you to research but unless all the newspapers are lying, this is true. So that you don't fiddle with my statement, I am not claiming that all state school children need such help but that there is a proportion that do, so may I ask you: would you be happy to be treated by someone who struggles and has needed remedial teaching to bump up their level of knowledge? As it is, medical degrees are being shortened.

There has been little mention of all the bursaries and scholarships that the top independent schools offer to pupils from low-income families. Once in school, these children are A.N. Other pupil and no distinction is made about their funding etc.

Has anyone who is critical of independent schools actually visited one? I doubt it but please feel free to correct me. If you had, you would see not 'Toffee-nosed hat-wearing boys and girls' but bright enthusiastic children who love school, give teachers respect and work very hard to exacting standards.

This continual carping on how dreadful it is for the royal family to send their children to an independent school is really quite laughable. They have money (yes, I know, I know we all pay. I found a figure from 2019 of £1.29 per head of population. France pays three times as much for their President and Italy even more still) family tradition of indie schools and want the best. Without opening up a new can of worms, the cost of a President would be far more, so what is your problem? Jealousy?

There are some excellent state schools. There are some excellent independent schools. There are some poor state schools. There are some poor independent schools. Parents are not always able to select where their children are educated - in both sectors.

Life is not fair.

Life's too short to read all that rambling.

Maybe in the morning....

No. Some of us just think that every child has the right to do the best that they can educationally regardless of how well off their parents are. And as long as some people can afford to give their children the best education possible it won’t bother them that many children have to go to underfunded schools where they don’t have the opportunity to do certain subjects, may not have outside areas to play sports ( it was Thatcher, I believe, who started selling off school playing fields). When my daughter was still teaching (at a state school) at one point she didn’t even have a desk. There was a shortage of books. Plus there’s the cronyism that results in many government ministers going to the same private school. Childrens educational achievements should be based on their intellect not how rich their parents are. And if they’re not academic then everything should be done to help them discover what they are good at.

Candelle, no, this is not what I have been saying, at all.

Volver and others clearly have just one view of education and drum on and on. This is:

Independent school parents and children = bad.
State school children and parents = good.

Such tosh.

Volver, over and over again, you have taken what has been written and manipulated it (cleverly, I'll give you that!) but attempted to turn it to your advantage.

Independent school parents would love not to have to pay (again) for their children’s education but they do for one reason... It's better for their children - for many different reasons. It suits their families. Simple.

Before you once again get on your high horse, yes, ALL schools should be of a similar standard but life isn't fair. Should be, could be, but isn't.

Please tell me: you live in the United Kingdom. Someone of your age living in sub-Sahara Africa would see what you have as unobtainable and unfair. You have so many advantages, courtesy of the land of your birth and they do not. This is obviously unfair. Would you give everything you have up to try to make the situation more equitable? Life is not fair.

We should all be extremely thankful that we are where we are and work to try to improve the system instead of carping (jealousy?) on about those who are able to purchase (for that's what an independent school is, a commodity) something better.

Yes, of course we all agree that state schools should be able to reach the same standards but that will not happen unless more money is put into the education system (as with the NHS, this sector runs on much good will from within). It needs better buildings, better staff and general facilities.

Before you try to be disingenuous regarding my last statement, you ignored my previous comment regarding the two policemen who have to guard against troublemakers as children board the bus home from school. Does this happen at an indie school, I doubt it? As with every organisation, there are some wonderful hard-working teachers but... and you probably will not accept this, there are some lazy sloppy teachers too, ones who let children run riot in class making it difficult for any who want to work. Not in an independent school.

Last Saturday, the Times ran an article 'Rude pupils driving out teachers, says strict head'. To precis, children's aggressive and rude behaviour has demoralised teachers to the extent that many have ended their teaching careers. The head in question states that there is a power struggle in some schools with the children wanting to run them. There is no politeness or courtesy from children to staff and the poor behaviour I witness as the secondary school turns out (seemingly around 2.00 pm. What happened to a full school day?) echoes this.

You asked ‘What if some of the doctors and dentists of tomorrow are in a state school? Do you not think that educating them brings a little bit of benefit to you? Or will you just accept treatment from a medic who went to fee-paying school?' Apart from this being a very silly statement (does one really ask one's doctor or dentist where they were educated?) perhaps you do, as you would not want to be treated by one who was independently educated, who knows your rationale.

I thought that you may be interested in the fact that some state educated children who have been accepted onto rigorous university courses have to take a foundation year or have remedial lessons. No, I can't quote statistics or point you to research but unless all the newspapers are lying, this is true. So that you don't fiddle with my statement, I am not claiming that all state school children need such help but that there is a proportion that do, so may I ask you: would you be happy to be treated by someone who struggles and has needed remedial teaching to bump up their level of knowledge? As it is, medical degrees are being shortened.

There has been little mention of all the bursaries and scholarships that the top independent schools offer to pupils from low-income families. Once in school, these children are A.N. Other pupil and no distinction is made about their funding etc.

Has anyone who is critical of independent schools actually visited one? I doubt it but please feel free to correct me. If you had, you would see not 'Toffee-nosed hat-wearing boys and girls' but bright enthusiastic children who love school, give teachers respect and work very hard to exacting standards.

This continual carping on how dreadful it is for the royal family to send their children to an independent school is really quite laughable. They have money (yes, I know, I know we all pay. I found a figure from 2019 of £1.29 per head of population. France pays three times as much for their President and Italy even more still) family tradition of indie schools and want the best. Without opening up a new can of worms, the cost of a President would be far more, so what is your problem? Jealousy?

There are some excellent state schools. There are some excellent independent schools. There are some poor state schools. There are some poor independent schools. Parents are not always able to select where their children are educated - in both sectors.

Life is not fair.

But a government that believes in neither of those Fleurpepper has been voted into power. It doesn't matter if we all on Gransnet agree with you or not if the majority don't care when we all vote in the election.

You cannot dictate your views into actions, only pursued voters.