Compulsory Maths till you’re 18.

FannyCornforth

I would have simply refused to do it.
I refused to do PE in the last year of school, so I do have form!

I have dyscalculia.
It took all my of efforts (and that if my parents and my wonderful maths teacher, who also privately tutored me) to scrape a C in my second attempt.

I was academically bright in other areas, so it probably would have caused huge problems for my HE and FE.

I wonder how maths teachers feel about having a class full of reluctant, stroppy (and, as would have been in my case - totally incapable) 17 and 18 year old students?

The whole thing is a ridiculous nightmare.
It’s a good job that it won’t actually happen! 😃

I'm with you on this Fanny, I would have been behind the bike shed with the smokers[I don.t smoke] but have gone to hide and for the company. My Dyslexia affects my maths ability after a certain level.
It's bad enough some poor teachers have to fight with 16-year-olds to do maths. Does this mean everyone will have to stay at school until they are 18? Imagine the chaos and what other subjects would be found for them.
I refused with a group of friends to do P.E. in the 6th form after we were herded in front of a teacher's car to do a cross-country run that we had been cutting a corner off and getting a lift with a van driver.
A farmer's daughter said it was illegal for farmers to do it with cows so we all just sat down in the road. I have form for being stroppy too. Doubt if anybody would have guessed .

I am in despair of this latest thinking from the PM.
What is the extended curriculum to contain.?
Which mathematical skills are considered necessary to be compulsory?
Basic arithmetic skills are needed more than “Mathematics”.
My grandson has dyscalculia and it would be to the point of cruelty to make him continue with Maths.

I so agree with FannyCornforth.

growstuff

*perhaps he is trying to distract us??*

Nooooooooooooo! As if ...

Think you have definitely hit it on the head . All smoke and mirrors

There is another thread asking how we keep our brains active.

During lockdown, Miss Marydoll kept us on our toes with a daily Maffs Puzzle and it was very enjoyable although some pupils were very naughty (you know who you are).

Mr Sunak thinks that all Gransnetters should have a daily maths test to keep our brains active - we just need a teecher - any volunteers?

🙂

Marilla

I so agree with FannyCornforth.

So do I, if you can't do maths at the level they seem to want at 16 what will two more wasted years at school do?
I worked in a special school with 11 /12-year-old children. I was really an Infant teacher and the head wanted me to teach them to read. After using every method I knew and every trick in the book about two got a bit better. Sometimes we have to accept we are not and never going to be the brain of Britain.
As Volver says what are calculators to help us with the maths that we need for daily living?
It's time we accept that all jobs do not need a degree and some of us are far more practically minded than others. Sometimes we find it easier to learn something when we can see the reason for doing so. Vocational skills. Who's ever met a joiner who can't use a tape measure but most haven't got A level maths?
I cried buckets over Calculus at 16 and I have never needed it since.

growstuff

MayBee70

I suppose it makes more sense than Boris Johnson’s idea that everyone should learn Latin…( does Sunak realise that some people leave school at 16?)

They don't - not in England, anyway. They might leave school, but they have to stay in education of some sort until 18.

Crikey. I’m so out of touch about this! We’re apprenticeships etc provided for young people then?

As Volver says what are calculators to help us with the maths that we need for daily living?

Calculators generally don't help you with maths. Unless maybe you've got an HP programmable one. (Do they still make those?)

They're great at arithmetic though.

Maths is not about knowing how to do the sums. It's about knowing what sums to do, and why.

So what do GNs think basic maths should include?
At the moment, basic maths seems to mean that people value/recommend different aspects, or even that a calculator is all you need, which wouldn’t help anyone planning a maths curriculum that everyone would be happy with.

volver

^As Volver says what are calculators to help us with the maths that we need for daily living?^

Calculators generally don't help you with maths. Unless maybe you've got an HP programmable one. (Do they still make those?)

They're great at arithmetic though.

Maths is not about knowing how to do the sums. It's about knowing what sums to do, and why.

Come on Volver I used maths as a general term, how many of us have to use all the maths we were taught? Yes, arithmetic is mostly what we use or"sums", and yes a calculator helps.
Though my GS could have done with a bit of knowledge of Archimedes's principle the other day when he nearly flooded the bathroom.

how many of us have to use all the maths we were taught?

Well, me...😂😂

A ridiculous proposition! Those students who find maths easy will probably study it at age 18 anyway! What happens to those who find maths difficult. Why has he homed in on maths ! I left school very early , always struggled with maths but have always had sufficient mathematical knowledge to cope with everyday situations.
Surely Mr Sunak has more important issues to deal with - the NHS for one!!

It seems clear to me that if 16 to 18 year olds are going to be learning maths then they will have to be taught at whatever level they have reached. They will also need to be well taught. The whole point of having specialist teachers in secondary schools is to provide good teaching from those who really know, at a higher level. So, if we have a shortage of maths teachers now, doesn’t sound like sensible planning to me.

So what do you count as ‘maths’ then VD?

Calculus, trig, geometry, algebra, number systems, stats. Not an exclusive list.

TBF, Fourier transforms never really came in that handy after second year at university.

It was compulsory for BTEC, RSA, City & Guilds Students studying for equivalent of A levels at all the schools I taught in. The level attained was not much more difficult than B grade GCSE but more importantly kept those skills going. It was invaluable for those intending to go into business immediately after especially self employment.
The Students had knowledge about book keeping, balance sheets, how much to charge for their labour and how many hours labour they would have to do without charging in order to stay afloat!
Compound interest (bank loans) was always a challenge but calculators could come to the rescue as well as neat working on paper. The course also covered using computer spread sheets and searching for mistakes!
During my A Level course back in the Stone Age (mid 1960’s) I learned how to use a Slide Rule.
When negotiating with the Government (late 60’s) on the Trade Union side it was only I who could calculate the cost of any acceptable Offers and what it would mean to my fellow workers.

My worst nightmare! I dreaded Fridays when we had triple maths!

Doodledog

It would depend what it meant. If it meant resitting GCSE until you pass, then yes, I’d be ok with that, as level 2 is very basic; but insisting everyone takes A level maths seems more than a little pointless. Also, would there be similar requirements to study English? I would apply the same thinking to that, if so. Everyone should be at least at level 2 before leaving school, but there is a big gap to get to A level. There has to be more nuance than that I think.

Having said that, I don’t have an O level in maths, and I have 3 degrees, two of which are postgraduate, one of those requiring the use of statistics in the dissertation. It’s by no means essential.

Totally agree. I have a Ph.D in a Social Sciences field, so loads of statistical analysis required. I only did Maths to O Grade (an Arithmetic, back in the day). I made my mum call school to take me out of the Higher Maths class because I hated it even though the school wanted me to do it. I took art instead. My life has been more enhanced by my understanding of art than the maths TBH. And I picked up enough along the way to help me do the stats I needed to do.

volver

^how many of us have to use all the maths we were taught?^

Well, me...😂😂

I so agree with FannyCornforth

So do I, if you can't do maths at the level they seem to want at 16 what will two more wasted years at school do?

Most people need practical maths and if they don't understand that by the age of 16, perhaps they never will.

how many of us have to use all the maths we were taught?
I did answer a quiz question the other day where the question was "how many .....? in a gross"
😁

Luckygirl3:

'I think the nature of the maths taught is important. For some students pure maths is appropriate, but for the vast majority there needs to be practical arithmetic that will prove useful in their future lives and hopefully they will have had this teaching pre-GCSE'

Sadly, many of those improving their grades (in FE) had a limited understanding and/or had just memorised the formulas/methods/recipes to 'do maths'.

I had great success with using money examples, as most of them were savvy with percentage discounts, cash, change etc. but hadn't transferred that learning to dealing with figures!

My life has been more enhanced by my understanding of art than the maths TBH. And I picked up enough along the way to help me do the stats I needed to do.

This is not a criticism makemineajammiedodger. We must all do what suits us best. I'm glad that Art enhanced your life.

But maths can be life enhancing too. I benefitted a lot more from knowing and understanding maths than I ever would have from art. When the topic of maths is reduced to calculators, slide rules and knowing how much paint to buy, I think that it just demonstrates the lack of understanding among many people about what maths actually is.

I've learnt a lot about art along the way. And music. And literature. I would have been terrible at Highers in any of those subjects, and I don't pretend to understand as much as somebody who is dedicated in them. I guess "I know what I like" (sorry!)

dedicated educated

Yes, I used some maths but maths which was specific.

The Maths taught to the age of 16 should provide a basic grounding for everyone, whether they need it for everyday use in their future lives or if they wish to pursue it at a higher level to A level or beyond.

I did really well at O-level maths in spite of hating it.

I wrote down all the formulae I was likely to need and read these up to the last moment going into the exam room, then screwed the paper up and chucked it on the floor as I went in. As soon as they said we could start, I wrote them all down at the top of my paper!

It's not always knowledge that gets you through!

Lucky girl - that’s a cracking story. Great work