Compulsory Maths till you’re 18.

It would be a nightmare! Like Fanny, I’d refuse.

Luckily, I could get into university to read English without maths O level provided I had Latin, which I did. Maths would have been a total waste of time for me, and for the teacher.

growstuff

Mamie

Exactly Mollygo. I quite agree.
These are the programmes of study up to age 11. (Date is 2013 so would be grateful if there are updates that don't appear on the site. )

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/335158/PRIMARY_national_curriculum_-_Mathematics_220714.pdf

But a Programme of Study doesn't mean that pupils have understood everything.

Agreed, but that is why you have systems for assessment.

There is no doubt growstuff that we all forget things we don't use. I meet plenty of people who tell me that they did French at school and can't remember a word of it.

Growstuff I’m not disagreeing that some children come out of school-primary or secondary without sufficient maths skills, but other than revisiting and extending areas of maths again and again, as happens now, how would you ensure all children leave with sufficient basic skills and what do you class as basic skills^?
In your experience as an MFL teacher, how did you ensure all your students left school being able to use the MFL you taught?

Maths to age 18, compulsory?
I’d have left and never returned to higher Ed if that had been the case for me.
We don’t teach maths well. Imagine the stress of always finding it difficult, then being told if yiu want to A level English/history/drama/art you’ve to add maths . No

Iam64

Maths to age 18, compulsory?
I’d have left and never returned to higher Ed if that had been the case for me.
We don’t teach maths well. Imagine the stress of always finding it difficult, then being told if yiu want to A level English/history/drama/art you’ve to add maths . No

I doubt most people will be expected to do A-level Maths.

Ridiculous. I agree everyone should do maths to GCSE, but I can see no point in everyone studying it until 18, what is he trying to achieve. You would think he had enough other things to sort out - perhaps he is trying to distract us??

Mollygo

Growstuff I’m not disagreeing that some children come out of school-primary or secondary without sufficient maths skills, but other than revisiting and extending areas of maths again and again, as happens now, how would you ensure all children leave with sufficient basic skills and what do you class as basic skills^?
In your experience as an MFL teacher, how did you ensure all your students left school being able to use the MFL you taught?

I didn't because MFL GCSE wasn't compulsory.

Mamie

There is no doubt growstuff that we all forget things we don't use. I meet plenty of people who tell me that they did French at school and can't remember a word of it.

Exactly! All learning needs to be revisited.

I actually did learn maths until I was 18 because I did A level General Studies, which in those days included a compulsory maths element. The questions were nothing like O level. From memory, they were things like "How many tins of paint do you need, if you want to paint a room with dimensions of x and y and the tin says the coverage is z metres square per litre?" or working out compound interest rates.

growstuff

Mamie

There is no doubt growstuff that we all forget things we don't use. I meet plenty of people who tell me that they did French at school and can't remember a word of it.

Exactly! All learning needs to be revisited.

But if they never go to France or have no intention of ever going, it's unnecessary.
Other languages are more important now imo.

Maths, or at least arithmetic to a certain level, is essential to everyday life.
Whether or not anyone who hasn't learnt enough to cope with day-to-day life by the time they are 16 will learn enough by 18 is a moot point. If not, then will continuing Maths education until the age of 18 be of any use at all?

perhaps he is trying to distract us??

Nooooooooooooo! As if ...

Callistemon21

growstuff

Mamie

There is no doubt growstuff that we all forget things we don't use. I meet plenty of people who tell me that they did French at school and can't remember a word of it.

Exactly! All learning needs to be revisited.

But if they never go to France or have no intention of ever going, it's unnecessary.
Other languages are more important now imo.

Maths, or at least arithmetic to a certain level, is essential to everyday life.
Whether or not anyone who hasn't learnt enough to cope with day-to-day life by the time they are 16 will learn enough by 18 is a moot point. If not, then will continuing Maths education until the age of 18 be of any use at all?

I'm not making any claims for the importance of learning French.

Casting my mind back to General Studies, I remember studying a lot of graphs and charts. IMO understanding and interpreting them is a very useful skill for anybody who wants to understand anything of the world.

How to budget and handle personal finances is important.
Most of us learnt that after we left school but it could be useful.

Most supermarkets have a price per unit on the labels so learning, for example, how to work out whether items are cheaper bought as an offer or not is probably not necessary.

It does seem that it's difficult to teach maths well. Improved greatly since our generation were at school but even so more work on the best methods to improve learning and retention in maths seems called for.

RS is thinking of skills for the workforce, which is better than not thinking at all. And yes, education/training is compulsory until 18. Nothing in the statement implies the endless retaking of GCSE maths or everyone doing A level maths. Don't lets throw the baby out with the bathwater.

growstuff

Casting my mind back to General Studies, I remember studying a lot of graphs and charts. IMO understanding and interpreting them is a very useful skill for anybody who wants to understand anything of the world.

I agree with this growstuff

If the maths element from 16-18 is not an A level type syllabus it could be extremely helpful in every day life. It needn’t be algebra and matrices etc.

Calculating interest on credit cards, loans etc. working out dimensions when ordering turf for lawns, concrete for patios, paint and wallpaper for decorating.

It’s surprising how many people come into our trade counter with little knowledge of ordering the correct volume of building/decorating products. It may even stop young folks getting into trouble with loans if they realised how much more they will be paying back.

I think the teaching would need to be very targeted and deal with the needs of particular children. At a basic level it would be possible to make it fun (but I doubt that's what Rishi has in mind). A friend taught maths to a group of teenage boys (absconders, problem children) by letting them play darts. The boys could all calculate doubles and trebles and do subtraction in their heads when they played, but sit them down with a paper and they protested they couldn't do it.

The man is totally disconnected from the real world. There is a shortage of teachers. There are so many problems that schools are trying to deal with.

A wider and deeper maths curriculum would no doubt be a good thing but how?

Totally potty government run by a totally potty leader.

ronib

What I meant to say perhaps was that my daughter in law reads philosophy in the original Ancient Greek texts as opposed to translations….
Maybe not over breakfast!

Ah, something quite different.
Good for her.

I agree no need to worry about French if you are never going to go there - but the people I meet who are worried are already here 🇫🇷. 😂
Just out of interest has anybody read the link to the actual maths curriculum that I posted?

Maths is a sore subject with me.

I was academically bright in a number of subjects and average in some others. Maths was one of my "average" ones. Although I was never in the bottom set I often got picked on by the maths teacher, Mr Jones. He made me doubt my own abilities.

One day he caught me in the stock room and put his hand on my breast, saying your a big girl. I knocked it away saying "You shouldnt have done that. If you ever pick on me in lessons again Im going to tell on you!"

I dont believe he ever spoke to me again directly, much less picked on me. I dropped maths the following year to do commercial subjects. It was allowed because they included bookkeeping. That was far more useful to me in running a business than algebra and theorems (which I never got the hang of).

Let x equal ... Sod that for a game of soldiers!

biglouis that’s awful. But your last sentence made me laugh.
Let x equal ... Sod that for a game of soldiers

Greyduster

I suppose it’s what you mean by maths. The sort of maths my GS is doing would be required for a range of professional careers, but not equate to the numerical skills you would need to get a qualification in the building, electrical or plumbing trades - and you can’t get a “ticket” without those qualifications. If he’s talking about numerical skills for vocational qualifications, so that all pupils leaving school are numerate, I’m all for it. Not sure how the eighteen would work though. I was hopeless at maths when I was at school and so was my son. He found his maths mojo when he was in his twenties and I never found mine at all!

I'm 78, was done with school at 16 and married soon. Maths is far easier to me than grammar, spelling, writing - I have quite minimum competence in all. I'm never going further in school. I'm content having numerical skills necessary for all sort of daily life and easy business bookkeeping.

I agree If he’s talking about numerical skills for vocational qualifications, so that all pupils leaving school are numerate, I’m all for it.