Highers in Scotland, can someone explain ?

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It does seem like an excellent half way house between the hugely (and almost unique) English A'Levels and the very wide Baccalaureat system as in most countries in Europe (the Baccalaureat in England is very different to the Continental model).

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My elder GS did the IB in 2021. Your native language and maths are compulsory. You have to take 3 subjects at a higher level (definitely A level standard in my subject which is modern languages) and 3 at a lower level plus something called Theory of Knowledge plus an extended essay plus community service. It's a lot tougher than 3 A levels and not for everybody. It was a struggle but he is genuinely well-rounded educationally and finding university very manageable.
Horses for courses... my younger GS saw how tough it was and opted for Scottish Highers in the science subjects he needs for engineering, not wanting to do essays in English or history.
His grandfather has pointed out how much writing you have to do as a professional engineer and how he wished he'd had more practice at writing things like feasibility studies before graduation. Perhaps nowadays engineering degrees do include that.

Thank you all for your contributions. Fascinating subject.

Highers nowadays have a number of internal assessments which must be passed before the final exam can be sat. Often pupils find this stressful because more than one subject can have an assessment in the same week. In previous days, Highers were purely exam based and therefore it was a different kind of stress. Pupils now couldn't possibly sit eight Highers at the same time.

That wouldn't be current practice though Kate

grandmabatty- I perhaps wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean Nat 5s as a direct academic comparison with O levels, but more as where they stood in the system, ie first public exams pre any advanced examinations.

I'm sorry to have to correct your statement re 'no school' allowing pupils to sit 8 Highers at the same time. Both of my brothers (privately educated) did just this. It was the norm at their school

The Scottish Qualifications Framework lays out the levels of all Scottish National Qualifications right up to PhD level. If you have a look at it, you should be able to compare levels with any similar framework available in any other country, including RUK.

Before anyone asks, the SQA which Grandmabatty mentions is the only Scottish exam board. They do not set A-levels, so any school (usually private) which wants its pupils to sit A-levels has to go with an exam board from elsewhere in the UK.

NAT five is not the equivalent to O levels, it is closer to Higher and the previous Intermediate Two. In my subject, English, some of the texts taught were used at both higher and nat 5. The format of Nat 5 is similar to Higher.
No secondary school would allow pupils to sit 8 Highers in one go. Some pupils may sit 8 Highers over two years but the natural thing to do would be to sit advanced Highers in S6 to deepen knowledge in 3 subjects.
It is unlikely that most pupils in most private schools would go straight to sitting 8 Highers without the experience of Nat 5.
I speak as a teacher of over 25 years experience and as an SQA marker.

Some Scottish schools, usually the private ones go straight to Higher without Nat 5s (O level equivalent) . This allows pupils to sit up to 8 Highers

growstuff

GagaJo The IB is very similar to the German Abitur.

When I started at my 2nd Swiss school the head sat me down and explained the two systems on a chart she had. Very confusing, given that I'm versed in IBDP, A Levels, IBMYP & GCSEs.

IBDP standard level in my subject isn't equal to GCSE. It's a bit like AS except done over 2 years. Whereas A2 is much more in depth than IBDP HL. Bordering on the first year of a linguistics degree. I haven't taught it for a few years now and looked at an exam paper a year ago and hadn't got a clue!

My DGS has just chosen his subjects for Highers. He will be doing:
English, Maths, Physics, History, Latin and Music.
Keeping his options open. He is 15 but will be 16 when he sits them.
He could go straight to a Scottish University which his DF did and study for 4 years or could stay for 6th form (year 12) and take SYS or advanced Highers.

One of my DS wanted to go to an English uni. Bristol set him a paper to bring him up to A level standard and he chose an English University eventually but although being only 16 when he left school was 18 before he started.

He now lives in NZ where their education system is similar to the Scottish model.

Another DC did 2 gap years before taking up her place at Aberdeen. She said that too many of the girls in halls with her were 17 and straight out of school and wanted to party all the time! while she was the mature older student at 19 having worked for a year and spent a year volunteering in South America.

Grandmabatty

Varian I have answered the op regarding the situation nowadays. None of what you write, although interesting, is accurate today.

Yes, I did say it was sixty years out of date and there have been many changes, but I do find it interesting that my grandchildren's IB curriculum is quite similar to what we did then and there are now suggestions about moving towards an IB type system, in England, if not in Scotland.

I should have said Six A in his hIghers. Is that clearer?
I wouldn't want to confuse my friends down south. I'm in enought bother this morning!

Varian I have answered the op regarding the situation nowadays. None of what you write, although interesting, is accurate today.

Marydoll, you're going to confuse people down south, if they think you have mixed Highers and A levels!! I assume your friend got 6 As at Highers, which is pretty good going, but also a good example of the potential breadth of the Highers system as it is difficult to get 6 Highers in just science or just arts subjects.

www.theschoolrun.com/overview-scottish-education-system

gives an overview, and I am sure there are other sites too.

I have a GP friend, who went to university with six Highers at A level. He had only just turned 17.

Scottish education has undergone a series of changes since I left school more than sixty years ago.

At that time we did both Highers and Lowers in the 5th year. Generally you sat your stronger subjects at the Higher level and weaker subjects at the Lower level, but at our school certain subjects such as History, Geography and Ancient Greek, were only offered as Lowers in the Fifth Year.

Staying on at school for the Sixth Year was for doing Highers in these subjects, resitting subjects which you had failed or gained too low a grade, converting a Lower to a Higher, or doing subjects such as Additional Maths (which was equivalent to an English "A" level). There were also University Bursary exams which could only be done in the Sixth Year.

The Highers were at a slightly lower level to English "A "levels but Lowers were at a slightly higher level than "O" levels. When my OH moved from Eng;land to Scotland six months after passing his O Levels he was told that they would not count for university entrance. He needed Highers and Lowers.

It was possible to go to university after the fifth year if you got a "Certificate of Fitness" which as far as I can remember required three Highers and two Lowers. Higher English was compulsory for all courses. Science and engineering students needed Higher Maths and at least a Lower in a language other than English. Arts students needed a Higher in a foreign language and at least a Lower in Maths. Medical Students needed Higher Science and Law students needed Higher Latin.

There were, at that time only four universities in Scotland (all over five hundred years old) . Less than 5% of school leavers went to university but there were many opportunities to train for professions - such as teaching, nursing, physiotherapy, law, accountancy, architecture, engineering or surveying by attending colleges full or part time or learning on the job.

There was no UCAS. You just applied directly. Many students went to the nearest university and lived at home. I never heard of anyone going to an English University.

I went to university at sixteen (I was young for my year), but did Additional Maths at evening classes between May and October before I started. I did Maths, Physics and Chemistry in my first year and the English students in my year (who were eighteen or nineteen) did not seem to be more advanced.

I do think that the traditional English system of narrowing down the range of studies at an early stage has caused problems. Studying three similar "A" levels, such as English , Latin and Greek, might have got you into Oxford to study Classics, but you could still emerge without important functional skills, such as properly understanding Statistics.

Some of my grand children, who live in Austria, are doing the International Baccalaureate and it is in some ways very similar to the curriculum in Scotland sixty years ago. In their last two years at school they do six subjects, three at the Higher level and three at the Lower level. All must do English, German, Maths, at least one Science and at least one Arts subject - for instance one is doing Higher English, Psychology and Music and Lower Maths, Chemistry and German. The way the subjects are assessed is quite different and less reliant on end of year exams. The IB also has other requirements such as community service.

I'm sorry that this post has got rather long and doesn't answer the OP's question about Scottish education today. My impression is that both in Scotland and in England pupils are doing far more subjects at the Higher or "A" level stage and are under a lot more pressure than we were.

Callistemon21

nanna8

We have theEuropean baccalaureate here in Victoria where you have a choice of that or the VCE. It is only offered at private schools, however and not all of them. A lot of international students do the IB as well as local students. The standard is about the same as the VCE. The VCE results are linked to University entrance requirements, like A levels.

Is the Australian system of Highers similar?

I know that Australian pupils finish at age 17, not 18 as here (except for summer-born children in the UK).
17 seems young to be going to university, considering too the distances which could be involved.

Callistemon, just for information, your reference to summer-born children does not apply in Scotland. Here the cut-off date for starting school is the 1st of March, so anyone whose 5th birthday is on or before 28th February 2023 can have started school in August 2022. Those whose 5th birthdays fall between 31st August and 1st March can stay at nursery for an extra year if that is thought to be best for them.

We have DC and DGC whose birthdays are in December and January, and they all started school at 4. One of them did enough Highers in 5th year for university entrance so went at 16 and 9 months. It was tough, but the person in question, after a 4-year Scottish course, got an Honours degree at 20, and very well done too! It suited that person, but of course wouldn't suit everyone, but I think we have more choice than in England and Wales as far as fitting the school starting time to the person goes.

GagaJo The IB is very similar to the German Abitur.

GagaJo

Whereas in my subject (I can't speak for other subjects), International Baccalaureate is easier than A Level. Because A Level is less broad, it is a lot more in depth. IB doesn't go as deep.

IB Higher Level in a Foreign Language is certainly easier than A level, but it's difficult to compare because the emphasis is different. Standard Level is harder than GCSE, but much easier than A level. For those who don't know, students have to take three subjects at Standard and three at Higher plus something called "Theory of Knowledge", which is nothing like anything at A level, apart from the additional EPQ. I would say that the whole IB package is more work than A level and is not for the faint-hearted. University course requiring, for example, ABB usually ask for 34 points at IB. The IB student probably has more rounded knowledge with less specialist attainment in individual subjects, unless he/she has achieved the top grade (7).

nanna8

We have theEuropean baccalaureate here in Victoria where you have a choice of that or the VCE. It is only offered at private schools, however and not all of them. A lot of international students do the IB as well as local students. The standard is about the same as the VCE. The VCE results are linked to University entrance requirements, like A levels.

Is the Australian system of Highers similar?

I know that Australian pupils finish at age 17, not 18 as here (except for summer-born children in the UK).
17 seems young to be going to university, considering too the distances which could be involved.