Teachers' pay strike.

Surely if they struck when they were on holiday and the schools closed, no one would notice?

I don't really know where to start with this one...

Teachers aren't being greedy.

There's no point striking during the holidays when I presume they wouldn't be at work anyway.

I believe they give up their pay on days when they are striking.

Scottish teachers have been on strike before Christmas.

And the really contentious bit - I think the children will survive. Teachers went on strike when I was at school in the seventies. Properly on strike, for weeks on end. Yet here I am.

It's not just pay - it is the long long working days, and the unpaid overtime that they all put in. It is the stress of having to number crunch and produce reams of data, when they just want to teach and teach well.

volver, I think when you strike in the UK you simply don't get paid.

Does anyone know of anyone striking and still getting paid on the strike day?
I think lots of people think you get paid regardless.

Working to "rule" or to the "job" is different. In that situation of course you should be paid.

Regarding striking in the holidays.
WHY would anyone do that?
It would have zero obvious impact.
Unfortunately, when teachers are working during their annual leave, no one sees it!

I think the unions pay a small proportion to workers as strike pay?
I don’t know if the teachers are justified or not really as I don’t yet know what they’re paid.I do feel sorry for parents tho as they scramble to arrange childcare or lose pay themselves.

Teachers aren't being greedy

That's what Joseanne said.
Some of the media infers that they are.

Unfortunately, when teachers are working during their annual leave, no one sees it!

They're not just on holiday for the whole time, there is still an enormous amount of preparation work to be done but, unfortunately, no-one sees that - until it is not done and a new term could start in chaos.

Re-reading that, I sounded as if I disagreed with you, NotSpaghetti but I'm not - I'm agreeing with you! 🙂

I would suggest that the strikes are also about conditions and expectations. Recruitment of teachers is ( generally) fairly buoyant: after all, everyone knows how to teach, because they went to school, didn't they? And everyone knows about the long holidays, short days yada yada yada.
Unfortunately, the problem is retention- the percentage of teachers who leave ( forever) after a few years is worryingly high, and when asked their reasons for leaving , almost all speak of workload/ responsibility levels. Striking teachers might help to address this by opening discussions around this, helping our children and grandchildren to have consistency in their classrooms. I'm a retired teacher ; all of my children have said that it's the last career they would consider !

Thank you Chocolatelovinggran and others. That is what I meant about it not being all about the pay, though reading most of the placards and banners one could be forgiven for thinking that pay is all the teachers are interested in. That's why I put this under Education, though it obviously won't draw as many comments as a in N & P discussion.

I actually said that teachers aren't being greedy, and that they deserve more pay. I know full well they lose pay when they strike. I would just like to see their cries for more pay focus on how this would benefit the children in their care, particularly in terms of retention, continuity, funding etc.

I think people will feel sorry for parents who have to organise childcare or take time off work, and I think people will feel even more sorry all the children losing days from their education at a very difficult time. There will be a lot animosity towards teachers over the strikes if we lose sight of the fact that teaching is a vocation above all else.

I remember the strikes in the 70's - I was at school, my mum was a teacher so saw both sides. Lots of animosity then.

Teacher's pay scales can be found here

www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/pay-pensions/pay-scales/england-pay-scales.html#Classroom%20Teachers

Most teachers in their third year of teaching onwards will have a Teaching and Learning Responsibility (TLR) paid on top of the basic salary.

When I was a teacher I didn't strike. If striking meant that Teaching Assistants were paid a decent wage, and more could be employed to enhance all children's learning/life chances, then I would have done, and I certainly supported them when UNISON went on strike.

Teachers do work very hard, no doubt. 7am - 5.30pm at school and then a couple of hours at home in the evening for me, not to mention writing reports and prep in the holidays - every holiday - but they do need to talk about how children are being affected by the constant paring back of budgets rather than making their own pay the headline everyone will remember.

teachers do work hard and it's not for the faint hearted I guess,
but are they really striking for more money?Are they badly paid? If not, they should be striking over conditions, but do they need to? the long hours daily are made up by the long holidays. It needs to be clear what the real beef is.

I am not sure exactly how much they are paid. At a guess around £40k?

See lily's link.

For around 290 days actually in school.
But obviously they work in the holidays too. 😃

Why do you think there is such a shortage in recruitment?
If the job is so easy peasy?

Fleurpepper I'm not sure anyone mentioned easy peasy but lots of jobs are very stressful.

oh I know- but I do find something strange. Time after time, after time - people with other so-called stressful and difficult jobs, used to say to me 'I have NO idea how you do it, and how you can stand it- I would not last 5 minutes?

there must be a reason. And a reason why recruitment is such a massive issues. Why do you think we have such a shortage of teachers?

My daughter has a stressful job and juggling childcare now her daughter is in school can be fun especially in the holidays. I did suggest to her going into teaching her reply "not bloody likely all those kids and no chance of getting any wear near my salary" end of conversation

The job is not as enjoyable as it was. Many newly qualified teachers give up after a short time. According to my DD and SiL , both teachers in their fifties, there has been too much government intervention in teaching making a difficult job harder.

Callistemon21 - I saw you agreed, but thank you!.

I listened to a discussion on an unfamiliar news channel, and the man speaking said he felt teachers should make their strike more about working pressures; he felt education was increasingly being used as an overflow for social services and that schools and staff were taking on increasing loads of social care and special needs, to the detriment of educational needs, an opinion which resonated with me, as a former SENco.
Despite what Mary Warnock said, all teachers are not teachers of special needs^, and they have neither the expertise nor authority to sort out the increasing domestic fallout that affects their pupils; they can't intervene as SS do or have the authority to find care for neglected children. All this impacts on school time when teaching and delivering the best education they possibly can, to all children should be the priority, not just to the vulnerable.
A woman guest said she felt teachers were increasingly teaching skills that should come from home, toilet training, basic hygiene, table manners, eating properly, dressing etc. (Please do not blame the lack of surestart for this; these are very basic skills); regular bed times, punctuality, taking responsibility for and caring for possessions and regular attendance.

rosie1959

My daughter has a stressful job and juggling childcare now her daughter is in school can be fun especially in the holidays. I did suggest to her going into teaching her reply "not bloody likely all those kids and no chance of getting any wear near my salary" end of conversation

Exactly what both of ine said, and laughed! NO way J(rrr)osé!

I have NO idea how you do it, and how you can stand it- I would not last 5 minutes.

I have heard that many times too, and often take it to mean that they wouldn't have the patience needed to juggle so many different things at once.
* eazybee* touches on how many extra skills a teacher is expected to have at their finger tips, and I would add to that that the growing lack of respect for teachers has been damaging too.

Fleurpepper

oh I know- but I do find something strange. Time after time, after time - people with other so-called stressful and difficult jobs, used to say to me 'I have NO idea how you do it, and how you can stand it- I would not last 5 minutes?

there must be a reason. And a reason why recruitment is such a massive issues. Why do you think we have such a shortage of teachers?

Perhaps it's because some pupils are very disruptive and unruly now and some would-be teachers realise this and find it daunting.

Teaching in some schools could be more about damage control than imparting a knowledge and love of your subject to a class of pupils.