Professions

Leatning a trade in the armed forces can be very useful for students who leave school with only a few GCSEs. Someone who trains to be a pharmacy technician in the Royal Navy has a skill that can be transferred very easily into civilian life. Also if someone enjoys their life in the armed forces, they earn the right to a reasonable pension after 22 years of service. Then there is the chance to work you way up the ranks and earn a better salary.

The best way forward now is to apply for an apprenticeship where you LEARN and EARN on the job. AI will take over many of the jobs which professionals now do .Plumbers , electricians etc who can do jobs AI can’t do will be able to command more money than professionals. Also why would you go to university to saddle yourself with dreadful debt at the start of your life?!

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notgran

Cossy, what is a "Zombie" thread please? Intriguing.

‘Zombie’ threads are old ones, sometimes several years old, that suddenly pop up and are ‘revived’, mostly by scammers or advertisers.

Then along comes a GN’er, who doesn’t look at the date, and starts commenting.

Often they are recognised by featuring posters who no longer post.

Cossy, what is a "Zombie" thread please? Intriguing.

Yet another zombie thread ! How do they keep popping up?

Elegran

To enter Information Technology and do it well professionally requires studying the theory and then getting experience in using what you have learnt in all situations, full time. That takes more application than just being able to do some things for your own interest.

An equivalent is cooking - most people can feed their own family and guests, but a professional cook is trained in all branches and does it full time. Once the chef has gained a good reputation they may strike out alone and even become a celebrity.

Going self-employed in cooking or IT are both ventures that are only embarked upon as secure solo careers when someone feels confident in their ability to be their own boss as well as their employee. That makes them potentially a career (and modern profession) rather than a paid job or a hobby.

My DH became a Computer Programmer in 1971. He studied Philosophy at university and was asked at interview about his hobbies. The answer was Bridge and crosswords and he got the job. He ended up as an international systems architect. 😂

Reported (CarlOlive).

NM. I just confuse easily now, after my stroke. Doodledog had some good explanations that I could understand.

"Professionals were qualified by examination"..."and were members of an association." Are professions of any relevance today?

I am sorry but I am.not able to understand this question. Could you ask it anothet way?

One career that was always good was to become a commissioned officer in the armed forces. You could join at 18 and leave at 37 with a good pension, a large amount of money in the bank if you were careful, and quite often, find another well paid career after 37. I worked with an ex army officer who bought a house more or less outright when he left the army and his pension and salary meant he had a good standard of living.

luluaugust

As we can’t manage without most of the jobs mentioned I suppose they must be relevant. Whether they still hold the same position in society I have no idea except I don’t think they are looked up to in the same way as was once the case.

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I can remember a publication from the sixties from a local authority in the North East called Careers For Grammar School Boys., Yes it sounds very sexist and dated now, but if you had 5 O levels and a decent reference, you could train to be a bank manager, a Royal Navy officer or a primary school teacher. Nowadays these jobs would demand a degree.

Reported

I can remember when someone who wanted to be a technician for the BBC could be accepted on a two year training course with 4 O lvels or CSE grade 1s, and become a fully qualified technician. Now, apart from jobs like camera operators being outsourced, the BBC asks for a degree for its remaining engineering positions.

Reported

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@Doodledog

People who qualified as librarians under the earlier system were often those who, like me, did not have the opportunity to go to uni. They often took their professional exams part time or piecemeal, while working. This was especially true of women because they had other responsibilities. Therefore they learned on the job and had years of practical experience in the day to day running of libraries.

The new graduates had no equivalent experience. Nevertheless they were placed on a fast track. We were expected to mentor these people, only to see them promoted to the same grade or higher after only a couple of years. Like many professions librarianship was changing to a degree -oriented one in which experienced and able staff with older qualifications were overtly dispreferred. This did not only happen it librarianship. As opportunities for higher education opened up it happened in other professions too, causing a great deal of anger and bitterness.

I feel very sorry for the colleagues who were in the same position as myself and who were left behind. I know that one of them with whom I was friendly ended up after the last re-organization with a temporary job share. I lost touch with old colleagues once I began my masters as I was self funding and effectively running two P/T jobs in addition to my studies.

biglouis

The danger occurs when the qualification route to a "profession" changes. Then those with the older qualifications are regarded by short sighted employers as less than. This happened in librarianship and a number of other professions.

The new universities began squirting out graduates with a degree in "Library and Information Science". Often not a very good degree. However they had a bit of paper which older, experienced (and often considerably more able) peopledid not have. Many were promoted rapidly beyond their experience and in some cases beyond their ability. At the same time (late 1970s) local authority services such as libraries, art galleries and museums were being starved of funds. So the councils looked for ways to monetize them and cut costs. In the final years that I worked for the local authority there was one re-organization after another - all designed to cut down on staff and save money.

If I had not taken the courageous decision to step off the ladder and go to university in my early 40s I would have ended up in the same situation as many of my erstwhile colleagues - made redundant in middle age. My greatest regret now is that I did not attend university at the normal age and go into academia then. I know that I would have retired as Dr Prof. Biglouis instead of a mere Dr.

You've told this story often, biglouis, but I'm never clear whether you think your qualifications were 'squirted out' so that you could be promoted above your abilities, or whether that just applied to those who got qualified before you?

You seem on the one hand proud of your degrees (and rightly so), but on the other dismissive of them when they were gained by your colleagues in libraries, and, presumably by the students you taught. It doesn't add up.

biglouis I was a mature student too. I was 36 and bored to death of my job as a clerical officer in the civil service so I started a teacher training course and graduated when I was 40. This led to a career as a teacher in further education which I loved and worked in until I was 61. I was lucky there were no tuition fees and I had a small maintenance grant for the four years, I loved every minute of my degree course and made lifelong friends I am still in touch with. Like you I regretted having left school at 16 against the advice of my teachers and my parents.

The danger occurs when the qualification route to a "profession" changes. Then those with the older qualifications are regarded by short sighted employers as less than. This happened in librarianship and a number of other professions.

The new universities began squirting out graduates with a degree in "Library and Information Science". Often not a very good degree. However they had a bit of paper which older, experienced (and often considerably more able) peopledid not have. Many were promoted rapidly beyond their experience and in some cases beyond their ability. At the same time (late 1970s) local authority services such as libraries, art galleries and museums were being starved of funds. So the councils looked for ways to monetize them and cut costs. In the final years that I worked for the local authority there was one re-organization after another - all designed to cut down on staff and save money.

If I had not taken the courageous decision to step off the ladder and go to university in my early 40s I would have ended up in the same situation as many of my erstwhile colleagues - made redundant in middle age. My greatest regret now is that I did not attend university at the normal age and go into academia then. I know that I would have retired as Dr Prof. Biglouis instead of a mere Dr.

David49

Not pot luck, it’s seeing and being able to take opportunities, professionals are hide bound to the boundaries of their career, on a treadmill they cannot get off.

Not necessarily.

We have accountants in the family, for instance, who have gone on to other careers, possibly related but different.
Anyone can change careers, they are not necessarily on a treadmill they cannot leave.

Or some set up their own businesses in related or unrelated areas.

Not pot luck, it’s seeing and being able to take opportunities, professionals are hide bound to the boundaries of their career, on a treadmill they cannot get off.

I am ACCA-qualified. All the accountancy bodies are now "Chartered" bodies. You need to undertake approved, authorised practical training from a qualified accountant to get the full qualification and a further Practising Certificate to become self-employed. I discovered I was good at teaching so spent most of my career as a Uni lecturer.

While in industry I made friends with a female accountant on our auditing team. She had attended a private grammar school. Her elder brother went to a state Grammar School and became a solicitor. Both careers took years of additional study after Uni. Her younger brother was the "thick" one, attended a Secondary Modern and somehow got into the business of importing wines to the UK, By the age of 25 he was a millionaire, and that continued throughout his working life.

My younger DD is also an Accountant with a company in the UK that is famous for its organic yoghurt that everyone buys when the supermarkets have special offers on it, but her elder sister has no professional qualifications and earns twice as much!!

Pot luck has a lot to do with it. Enjoyment of your chosen career is most important.

But not sure that was the point of this question.

I suggest that a profession could be anything where sustained training in a specific discipline is needed and a career path where for further training or experience can be followed.

Certainly accountancy qualifies as does Law, Banking and many other occupations.