The Scots Language

Thank you Bodach for a calm, reasoned and factual response to a somewhat hysterical shouty post.

It is so frustrating when arguments develop based on misunderstandings or inaccurate information.

Elegran

Well, solidly based and without unnecessary adornment.

Lasting for millennia.

Well, solidly based and without unnecessary adornment.

Elegran

Callistemon21 Doric was one of the architectural styles of Ancient Greece. the others were Ionic and Corinthian. Doric was chunky and countrified, as the Doric dialect could be described. architecturecompetitions.com/the-3-orders-of-ancient-greek-architecture

Yes, I remember having to draw examples of them at school 🙂
From Ur to Rome!

But didn't realise Doric was chunky and countrified.

Callistemon21 Doric was one of the architectural styles of Ancient Greece. the others were Ionic and Corinthian. Doric was chunky and countrified, as the Doric dialect could be described. architecturecompetitions.com/the-3-orders-of-ancient-greek-architecture

There was a time when we were considering moving to Scotland. I would have loved to move to Skye, but to teach there one had to speak Gaelic as well as standard English. In the end we decided to look near Edinburgh but my ex didn't get the job he applied for and I became pregnant, so everything changed and we remained in England. I didn't know there were other Scottish languages.

I grew up a Doric speaker. I passed the eleven plus, and then had a place at an all girls grammar school. I remember a neighbour telling me that I’d ‘ hae tae learn tae spik posh ‘. I did. However, when talking to the family, I reverted to childhood ‘ language ‘, but never spoke to my own children in Doric.

In a word No

Oh and first post,even though I’ve been a member for ages, only became a Nana last year-something we thought wouldn’t happen.
Congratulations on the new arrival
They're worth the wait 😃

Mollysuki

I’m from Peterheid (Peterhead) moved to England when I was young. We still spik (speak) Doric when we go back to visit. We believe it to be language. I seem to remember a YouTube clip about Doric. I’ll see if I can find it. Oh and first post,even though I’ve been a member for ages, only became a Nana last year-something we thought wouldn’t happen.

That's why I was asking because I thought Doric was an old language but have seen it described as a dialect of Scots.

I’m from Peterheid (Peterhead) moved to England when I was young. We still spik (speak) Doric when we go back to visit. We believe it to be language. I seem to remember a YouTube clip about Doric. I’ll see if I can find it. Oh and first post,even though I’ve been a member for ages, only became a Nana last year-something we thought wouldn’t happen.

Used hanste a lot in relation to giving a silver coin when meeting a new baby for the first time (usually in a pram) and if gifting a purse there just had to be a silver coin in it. Gd who lives in Scotland's capital was taught English and Gaelic in primary school. Never heard her say anything about Scots though family use a lot of the "old" Scottish words.

My gran was Scottish so she spoke it often if her sister was visiting and my other gran was Irish both would say bairn and put coins in the pram to bless the baby with luck. I live in the north east and we say bairn here too

These were hard times!

Thank you Bodach

Perhaps there was a general punishment of six months for a first offence, subsequent offences meant transportation.
That's why my Gx3Grandfather got six months for receiving (not stealing) part of a sheep.

Many English and Welsh received similarly harsh punishments. There were about 200 offences which meant the death penalty if convicted.

I currently speak Scots English Doric and I'm learning Gaelic I use Scots English and Doric every day and sing in a Gaelic choir In my area which is a New Town there is a strong Gaelic Speaking community and good Gaelic medium education from nursery to Sixth year .

I love this poem by Tom Leonard.
I always thought it was in Glasgow dialect is that right?

Feed Ma Lamz

Amyir gaffirz gaffir. Hark.
nay fornirz ur communists
nay langwij
nay lip
nay laffn ina sunday
nay g.b.h (septina wawr)
nay nooky huntn
nay tea-leaven nay chanty rasslin
nay nooky huntn nix doar
nur kuvitn thir ox

Oaky doaky. Stick way it
—rahl burn thi loata yiz.

I was b orn in 1951, my father, though a Scot, had been brought up in Bradford, as that was where my Grandpa found a job, but spent his summer holidays either in Edinburgh with his maternal grandparents or in Alva with his paternal ones.

My mother was Danish and learned English as a second language mainly after marrying.

At home we spoke what I now realise was the form of English spoken by educated Scots with plenty of dialect words used in everyday speach as the names of common articles.

Apart from that I basically could speak Glaswegian (not encouraged by my parents) Doric Scots as spoken between Paisley and Glasgow, and could to some extent manage the intonation of the Highlands as well. Most of my contempories could too.

Thank you Bodach. Very interesting.

paddyann54

No one heard of the ACT OF PROSCRIPTION ? 1746 ,which banned the wearing of Tartan with a punishment for first offenders of up to 7 years in jail or for second offenders deportation to OZ ? The act was repealed almost 40 years later when the custom of wearing clan tartans was said to have died.Killed at source!
The soldiers who were stationed here to enforce it were apt to put a stop to anything overtly Scottish INCLUDING the language.
Gaelic was NOT just used in the Highlands and Islands it was common as far south as where I live 20 miles from Glasgow and even Glasgow had a large gaelic community .My 2 x great grandfather came from the islands to be a policeman in Glasgow purely because the gaelic language was spoken in many areas.
I have Gaels who live next door who speak only gaelic at home,their children attend gaelic school in Glasgow .
Of course this all depends whose version of events you believe.Neil Oliver who is NOT a historian tells us the Highland Clearances were just economic migration....perhaps he should have been around to tell the families whose homes were destroyed,burned and who were thrown off their crofts to make way for sheep!!
I'm sure they didn't think of themselves as economic migrants when they were in the bowels of ships taking them to countries that knew nothing of .

Yes, paddyann54, I have heard of the Act of Proscription, and (unlike you, it would seem) I have actually read it. To baldly state, as you have, that "it banned the wearing of Tartan.." is grossly to over simplify its directives and mislead the reader. The majority of the Act's provisions concerned banning the possession of armaments ("broad sword or target, poignard, whinger, or durk, side pistol, gun, or other warlike weapon") by people living in the areas of Scotland from whence had come most Jacobite supporters: roughly those counties to the north of a line from Loch Lomond to the River Forth.
There was no all-encompassing ban on wearing Tartan per se. The ban was actually concerned with the types of clothing associated with the Jacobite Rebels, ie "the clothes commonly called Highland Clothes (that is to say) the plaid, philibeg, or little kilt, trowse, shoulder belts, or any part whatsoever of what peculiarly belongs to the highland garb" rather than the patterns of the cloth from which they were made. Tartan was banned only for two specific items of clothing: "no tartan, or partly-coloured plaid or stuff shall be used for great coats, or for upper coats". Also, the provisions related only to men and boys; women and girls could wear Tartan unimpeded. Hardly the TOTAL BAN ON TARTAN (if I may borrow your preferred means of emphasis) you postulate. You have also got your sentences for infringement muddled up: they were 6 months in jail (no more; no less) for a first offence, and "transportation to any of his Majesty's plantations beyond the seas, there to remain for a space of seven years" for a second.
And finally, where's your evidence that "The soldiers who were stationed here to enforce it (the Act of 1746) were apt to put a stop to anything overtly Scottish INCLUDING the language"? This same sort of confusion and wishful thinking gives rise to the oft-repeated myth that the Highland Bagpipes were also specifically banned after Culloden. They weren't, but you can tell people that until you are blue in the face, and they still won't believe you - despite being unable to provide any evidence to back up their position.
And - lest anyone think I am an overly touchy Sassenach - I am a Highlander born and bred, whose clan fought on the side of the Government against the Jacobites, but were nevertheless subject to the full weight of the Act of 1746.

Scot is a dialect of English. It does sue many words from Norse languages Gaelic is a language which has more or less fallen into disuse, but the Scottish government is making attempts to revive it.

I am 40% Scottish (DNA certified) and did not even know that there was a Scottish language!

English people were also transported for minor offences, paddyann.
Times were tough except for the wealthy.

How my Gx3Grandfather escaped transportation and only got a prison sentence for receiving a part of a sheep to feed his starving family I don't know.

My DD had a children's book which I then read which was called "So Far From Skye" by Judith O'Neill, still in print think.

That was then and I hope we've progressed since then. Certainly many Scots, Irish and Weksh people made better lives for themselves in the new lands they were sent to.

No one heard of the ACT OF PROSCRIPTION ? 1746 ,which banned the wearing of Tartan with a punishment for first offenders of up to 7 years in jail or for second offenders deportation to OZ ? The act was repealed almost 40 years later when the custom of wearing clan tartans was said to have died.Killed at source!
The soldiers who were stationed here to enforce it were apt to put a stop to anything overtly Scottish INCLUDING the language.
Gaelic was NOT just used in the Highlands and Islands it was common as far south as where I live 20 miles from Glasgow and even Glasgow had a large gaelic community .My 2 x great grandfather came from the islands to be a policeman in Glasgow purely because the gaelic language was spoken in many areas.
I have Gaels who live next door who speak only gaelic at home,their children attend gaelic school in Glasgow .
Of course this all depends whose version of events you believe.Neil Oliver who is NOT a historian tells us the Highland Clearances were just economic migration....perhaps he should have been around to tell the families whose homes were destroyed,burned and who were thrown off their crofts to make way for sheep!!
I'm sure they didn't think of themselves as economic migrants when they were in the bowels of ships taking them to countries that knew nothing of .