The Scots Language

I am very interested in this. I recall My Grandmother could not be understood by my friends. My parents spoke ( I suppose) standard English with strong accents and the inclusion of many wonderful dialect words.

Is Scots a separate language or a code /dialect.

Cheery Bye the noo!

Historically, Scots is a variety of Anglian . Standard English is just another variety of Anglian but became the posh dialect because the people who spoke it were the powerful ones who became the ruling establishment.
Ambitious parents wanted their son to be able to speak Standard English and if they could afford it they sent their son to the south of England for education to get the posher language on him.

Zakouma, interesting story. Where was your grandmother brought up? I ask because all dialects are proper languages and it is only power politics (and snobbery )that stopped them being taught in schools .I understand that nowadays if a child in school is bilingual that will be encouraged.

It is a most interesting topic. My Father used a word regularly which I have never heard again " hanstle" Meaning to wear a new item of clothing.

zakouma66

It is a most interesting topic. My Father used a word regularly which I have never heard again " hanstle" Meaning to wear a new item of clothing.

I know that word. There used to be a clothes shop where I lived in the North of England or Scotland called Hansel.

noun
a gift or token for good luck or as an expression of good wishes, as at the beginning of the new year or when entering upon a new situation or enterprise.
Rare. a first installment of payment.
Rare. the initial experience of anything; first encounter with or use of something taken as a token of what will follow; foretaste.
(Dictionary.com)

Children here are mostly bilingual in Doric and English at school and often at home too. Even if they live elsewhere now they can still use it when they want to.

So interesting this stuff to me!

Your example Wheniwasyourage, would be shifting code I think?

That's not a term I'm familiar with, zakouma66. What is a code as opposed to a dialect?

Doric can be quite difficult for strangers to understand, and there are a lot of words which are different from standard English - quite a lot of them are more like Scandinavian languages and many of them are common to other versions of Scots. If you can find "Scotland the What?" on YouTube (I assume it will be somewhere there!) you can hear Doric. "StW" was a long-running show performed by three Aberdonians and they did sketches in city and country versions of Doric. Very funny.

Scots was a language before standard English was developed from old English. It is not a dialect of English. It is a separate language with roots in Norse, Germanic and french. There are obvious similarities to English and words have migrated. One that I find fascinating is the Icelandic word for a vacuum cleaner which is Stoorsooker. The Scots word for dust is stoor so you can see the kink. 😂 Scots usage generally in schools was belted out of children in the 30s to 70s or so. Schools had a strong link with the church and there was a demand for proper English to be spoken. Many children and then adults used Scots in the home and to describe how they felt but English for academic purposes. It's well described in Sunset Song by Lewis Grassic Gibbon. So there was a dichotomy created in the Scottish psyche: Scots for the heart and English for the head. Gradually there has been an upsurge in the use of scots as a language. It is accepted in certain sqa national five and higher English papers. It is taught in most primary schools albeit sometimes as a month's focus. Some secondary schools teach it too. There is a recognition that speaking the language you are born with enhanced other languages learned. I would say it's piecemeal across Scotland depending on where you are.

Link, not kink! I wish we had an edit button.

That’s a blast from the past to hear hanstle. I haven’t heard it in over 40 years. My elderly Scots neighbour excitedly appeared when I took my newborn babies out for their first pram walk saying “Oh I’ll need to hanstle the baby” She’d then proceed to slip a few coins in the pram for luck. She was Glaswegian of Irish parents .

That was very interesting, Grandmabatty. I think many people forget that Norway once ruled part of Scotland and the influence is still there in the language and 'Scottish' names.

I do believe, the Danish for child is "barn" so I imagine the word "bairn" as used in Scotland and parts of the north of England floated across from Scandinavia centuries ago. The etymology of language and how the settlement of different cultures affected the indigenous people is very interesting.

I have never heared of it.. So I asked my DH who is a Scot born in the 50's. Educated plus his degree all in Scotland, Edinburgh area.. He's never heard of it either.

I remember the word hanstle too in connection with giving a small gift as a token of good luck to new babies but also to new purses. To this day, if I am giving someone a purse as a present I have to hanstle it with a coin.

Parsley3

I remember the word hanstle too in connection with giving a small gift as a token of good luck to new babies but also to new purses. To this day, if I am giving someone a purse as a present I have to hanstle it with a coin.

Me too. Even when I'm taking handbags or purses to the charity shop, I always leave a wee hansel in them.

@curtaintwitcher thank you. 😊 I have done a lot of work on the use of scots over decades. I was responsible for involving Matthew Fitt to train teachers in my local authority in how to use Scots effectively in the classroom. I taught Scots at all levels up to Higher English. There have been many more initiatives since I retired. There are lots of children's books translated into Scots - many Ronald Dahl ones- by ItchyCoo publishing. Many children love that Scots has no definite spelling rules so they don't have to worry about that either.

That's fantastic, Grandmabatty. I think we have to do all we can to preserve the Scots language. My wee GS loves The Gruffalo and has a copy of The Gruffalo's Wean! My FiL likes to try to teach some of the staff at his care home some Scots words, much to their amusement.

My friend’s mum was from a Scottish island and didn’t speak English at all, only Gaelic. That was in the 1980s. She visited my friend who had to translate for her when she was here.

Scots Gaelic is a different language to Scots .It was banned when the "union" was formed as was the wearing of tartan(plaid) and all manner of things Scottish.Thankfully people are again looking to their roots and loving what they find.

When my granddaughter was at primary school in Argyll and Bute the whole school had to learn a poem in Scots. Each year group had a different poem to learn. There was a competition for the child in each year who recited their poem the best. My granddaughter didn't stand a chance being English.
This is it;

Twa-Leggit Mice by JK Annand My mither says that we hae mice That open air-ticht tins And eat her chocolate biscuits And cakes and siclike things.
Nae doubt it is an awfu shame That mice should get the blame.
It’s really me that rypes the tins When left alane at hame.
But jings! I get fair hungert And biscuits taste sae nice.
But dinna tell my mither for She thinks it is the mice.

Our local primary school has a Scots assembly every year to mark Burns Night and the children often learn various poems in Scots. My daughter had to recite The Sair Finger.

Garlic is not Scots. It's a different language altogether. Schools across Scotland today can choose to have a Gaelic Hub where children are immersed in the Gaelic language. All railway stations in Scotland have signs in both English and Gaelic. It would be nice to see Scots represented too. Minimoon a well known Scots poet of the past there! I would think your dgd had as much chance as anyone else! Scots in many schools focuses on everyday language, not just poetry now.

We are multilingual here in Scotland.
Scots or lallans is spoken, or at least understood, in my area Edinburgh and Lothians. As Grandmabatty says, there is a concentration round about Burns Night in January. All my 4 DC won prizes for recitation and singing of Scottish songs.

Where DD lives further North, Gaelic is taught in school.
Gaelic came from Ireland originally but although many words are similar, they, Scottish Gaelic and Irish Gaelic are 2 distinct tongues.

My DB emigrated to Denmark many years ago and we've often discussed the similarity of many words.
The kirk is the church in both languages. Bord is the table. Barn and Bairn. Mouse pronounced moose is the same.
Ji, means I, pronounced yi.
Apparently fishermen who traded between Norway and Aberdeen could understand eachother.