The Headmaster from Hell

So does this teacher expect parents to take time off work if I had to sit on one of those little chairs I’d never get up again

Im sure there are many serving in the armed forces that would like to wear their hair a little longer, position their cap at a jaunty angle and replace their boots with something a little less heavy.

However they learn to wear their uniforms with pride, are accustomed to inspections and criticism and understand what their uniform represents.

I think school uniform is so important, it is a lot cheaper than all the branded goods the young people would like to wear.

Lesley60

So does this teacher expect parents to take time off work if I had to sit on one of those little chairs I’d never get up again

But presumably you are not of an age when you would have secondary aged children, only secondary aged grandchildren in class

There are a tranche of parents who openly or quietly enable their children to not go to school, be disruptive and treat education with contempt. Not many, but enough for their children to be disruptive and ruin other children's education.

Making them come into school and sit with their children is an excellent idea.

I definitely think schools need more head teachers to adopt the same approach. We had some unruly pupils during my school days but nothing like the stories I hear from my grandchildren. During my school years students who broke certain rules were sent to the PE teacher. He had a large black plimsole which he would chalk on the number of times he had used it during the day! He would then tell the unfortunate recipient (a wallop on their backside) that if he saw them again that day and the number had been rubbed off they would be walloped again !!! Aahh the good old days!!! Now I am not suggesting that we return to corporal punishment but teachers need to be able to restore order to their schools. There are so many parents who just don’t seem to be able to discipline their children I feel very sorry for the teachers who reap the rewards of this lack of discipline and accountability. Children will not break by being told off and made to see they were wrong will do them and everyone else a favour in the long run. They need to be prepared for the real world. Sorry for the rambling post but I get so frustrated and worried about our future generations in what is already a very difficult and challenging world.

There are a tranche of parents who openly or quietly enable their children to not go to school, be disruptive and treat education with contempt.

Until we start asking ourselves why that is, then the problem will continue. Blame and denigration achieve nothing.

I would start with social/cultural deprivation and poor experiences with their own education. Until we have a government that will invest in young children and families right from the start, and not expect an immediate return on their outlay we will get nowhere with this. You need to speculate to accumulate; to invest to profit. Short term thinking gets us nowhere.

All the services targeted at young families that I was involved with as a social worker have been wiped out, in spite of evidence that the investment was beginning to pay off. Money to put children into child care is not what is needed - money to support and educate deprived parents is.

Well said Luckygirl3

Excellent post Luckygirl3

I couldn’t agree more - you’ve summed up the essence of the problem so well. I could have written a very similar post but you beat me to it!

I’m a retired secondary headteacher and am really disappointed that so many here seem to admire this draconian and macho style of leadership.

I spent most of my career in schools serving the more disadvantaged communities in relatively affluent areas. It’s fairly easy - and often necessary- to get a few quick wins in the first months of headship by tightening up on enforcing the basic rules.

Genuine, lasting improvement is much harder to achieve and embed in the school culture for all the reasons outlined in your very thoughtful post.

I hope everyone on here takes the time to read what you’ve written .

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Me too!

Agree with Luckygirl13.
Truthfully, I just don’t get the UK obsession with school uniform. You don’t see it so much in Europe or the US, where kids mostly just go to school in their regular clothes. The type of clothes that children and young people wear at school are rarely seen in the modern workplace. And it seems to me that girls are more often in breach of these rules, which makes me feel that there’s a gendered element - which is out of step with modern styles (eg gel manicures, which are not designed to be removed on Monday before school!)
I can’t help thinking it gets in the way of developing better, mutually respectful relationships in schools, and it seems to absorb a lot of time and energy that should be focused on how people behave rather than how they look.
There was always an argument that it was some kind of leveler - so that everyone looked the same. That definitely wasn’t the case in my school where I was laughed at for my cheap shoes by the girls in their posh leather brogues, and I don’t doubt it’s the same now.

Lahlah65, why should it be important for young girls to have things like gel manicures? We should be looking at the way girls feel they have to change their looks to conform to so called modern styles. Uniforms could be a great leveller if there was a uniform stockist that the parents had to adhere to. Deals could be done with cheaper outlets rather than the expensive ones you get when you get the embroidered wear. We used to buy a badge you sew on when I were a lass!
If you are going to be joining a profession you very often have to adhere to a code of dress. Why should that be different with young people? It is a simple way of teaching them we can't always do what we want, when we want it. Like it or not, there are rules throughout society which you have to follow whether you like it or not. It has to start somewhere.

I’m not convinced uniforms improve behaviour though it’s clear new heads who get very strict about uniform, amongst other things, achieve results]
Children pour out of high schools in other European countries wearing jeans, sweat shirts, trainers, much more comfortable and easy to replace than our uniforms. They behave like other teens, chatting as they walk. It seems to me it’s more about social expectations and acceptance of codes of decent behaviour. We have more of a maverick independence. Look at British tourists in many holiday resorts, men with no shirt on, people in beach wear thinking it’s ok to wander the streets, get served in restaurants. Noisy excessive alcohol consumption. These are the adult role models the teens with false nails, eyelashes and pink hair whose parents insist they have to wear them ‘for their mental health’

Two of my children went to schools with no uniform with nil detriment to their educational achievement.
They all went to the local sixth form college ... no uniform, no problem.
They then went on to universities ... no uniform, no problem.
Uniforms just become a focus for pupil rebelliousness and for teacher frustration ... they would much rather be teaching than policing this nonsense.
I think uniforms are a red herring when it comes to the current problems in school which are linked to the much wider problem of social deprivation.

I have always had my doubts about uniform. When I was at school I became an expert in undermining the uniform code, based on statements made by our headmistress. She was always preaching economy and austerity, so I made a big thing of repairing my uniform to make it last longer, so my uniform always had repairs and buttons, not entirely straight. And of course, once off school premises, hitched the skirt up and loosened the tie.

At one point we lived near two schools one with uniform and one without and I always commented on how scruffy those in uniform looked compared with those from the school without uniform.

Back in the 1970s, my children's school did not have a uniform but had a dress code. No T shirts with logos, pictures or texts, no jeans and no trainers. That code wouldn't be appropriate in the 2020s, but I am sure something similar could be drawn up, so that children learn about dressing appropriately, all nowadays, it seems, anything goes.

I think a dress code rather than uniform is best.

There was a time in the 1980s when our local school abandoned uniform and the result was the children started wearing things like saggy jogging bottoms and slogan tee-shirts, some of the girls wore boob tubes and cropped leggings. They went back to full uniform after a couple of years but I felt that if they had had a proper dress code it could have worked.

Indigo8

I think a dress code rather than uniform is best.

There was a time in the 1980s when our local school abandoned uniform and the result was the children started wearing things like saggy jogging bottoms and slogan tee-shirts, some of the girls wore boob tubes and cropped leggings. They went back to full uniform after a couple of years but I felt that if they had had a proper dress code it could have worked.

I agree.

No uniform results in pressure on those who can't afford the latest fashions, sportswear and trainers and consequently bullying.

Informal, inexpensive uniforms are best.

Polo shirts, trousers or skirts and jumpers or cardigans all in a specified colour, plus plain black shoes.

It doesn't matter whether children are in uniform or not it is quite clear who comea from a well off family and who doesn't. Shies are a great give away, those who have clean new uniform which is replaced as soon as starts getting small compared with children who is uniform is clearly worn, faded, too small, inadequate.

It is a fallacy that uniform hides differences of wealth between children. It doesn't. They all know each others family circumstances and it is the basis of most bullying.

Schools are aware of this and many parents donate uniform which is grown out of but still fairly new.
This is then either donated or sold at very low cost to other parents.
DGD, for instance, was only at a school for about three months due to a house move; her uniform was donated to her old school, still in excellent condition.

Allira

Schools are aware of this and many parents donate uniform which is grown out of but still fairly new.
This is then either donated or sold at very low cost to other parents.
DGD, for instance, was only at a school for about three months due to a house move; her uniform was donated to her old school, still in excellent condition.

But that does not stop every child knowing what kind of family eveyr child comes from and whether they are poor or rich.

I think you're determined to argue with every post I make at the moment M0nica, whatever I say.

Goodnight.

Nearly all the kids wear uniforms here, even the pre schoolers now in some areas. No one thinks about wealth or whatever. Kids are kids.

nanna8

Nearly all the kids wear uniforms here, even the pre schoolers now in some areas. No one thinks about wealth or whatever. Kids are kids.

The uniforms I've seen over there are more casual. However, polo shirts with a school logo are ten times the price of a similar one in Target or similar stores.

Allira

I think you're determined to argue with every post I make at the moment M0nica, whatever I say.

Goodnight.

I often agree with you, but it doesn't follow I always have to or will agree with you, and at times we will differ.

I think school uniforms are a waste of money that put an unnecessary burden on poorer families and at secondary level rarely look smart. I got legally making my uniform a mess down to a fine art.

Nor does it hide differences in children's circumstances. All it does is produce pretty pictures of symmetry that please adult eyes but contribute nothing to children's education.