Eleven plus

I took my 11 plus a year early and Mr Beech, our class teacher, was so excited that I’d passed that he sent me home to tell my father (who had a shop nearby) straight away. I’ve no recollection of a letter but I suppose there must have been one.

I have a lot to thank Mr Beech for and am still in touch with his family.

NotSpaghetti

Cumbrianmale56 - many people have dreams that "come to nothing".
Surely his art education is not lost?

Exactly this. Prison officers can make a positive difference , it’s stressful but so are many rewarding jobs.
Being skilled in and enjoying Art, any of the arts, is a life long blessing. Most artists need a paying job as well, that isn’t dreams coming to nothing, it’s real life

Cumbrianmale56 - many people have dreams that "come to nothing".
Surely his art education is not lost?

Allira

^and someone else in my school year ended up as a pruon officer as his degree had few openings^.
ended up
Goodness, that sounds judgemental Cumbrianmale. Prison officers play a vital role in society.

Prison officers can rise through the ranks to become governors, others join having succeeded in other professions such as teaching, yet others having spent time in the Forces, some have degrees and higher degrees.

He had a degree in graphic art, ended up in dead end jobs, before he became a prison officer. However, it is a very stressful job, and even in Haverigg, an open prison, it's still not easy as there are some very nasty prisoners. I wasn't being judgemental as he's one of my oldest friends, just his dreams of working in graphic design or as an art lecturer never came to anything.

I was classed as border line. I wasn’t 11 when I took the ll plus.The reason being that Iwas a July birthday. So us border line children went to what was a Central School which I loved. We sat GCEs, learnt shorthand, typing and first stage accounts.

I remember taking the !! plus. I don't remember anything about the exams but I know thw big worry was whether my English would be good enough to make up for my poor maths. Apparently it was because I passed. The results were sent in a letter, as were my O Level and A Level results. I've since had to go and collect GCSE results for my grandson and thought it was awful with everyone wanting to know what everyone else had got.

My oldest grandson went to one of our comprehensives and was doing well until lockdown which really screwed the rest of his time there. His younger brother was heading to the same school, but he found a boy who was taking the 11 Plus and he had a look at some of the specimen questions. He thought they looked quite easy and asked if he could have a go. The result was that he is now at one of the top grammar schools in the country (One that children endure years of coaching to get into) and seems to be having a great time. Part of me feels that this sort of education should be available to all and part of me just thinks he is so lucky to have the opportunities that are being offered to him. The thing he really likes is being in a class of boys who all want to learn and just sit down and get on with the work.

Allira

^and someone else in my school year ended up as a pruon officer as his degree had few openings^.
ended up
Goodness, that sounds judgemental Cumbrianmale. Prison officers play a vital role in society.

Prison officers can rise through the ranks to become governors, others join having succeeded in other professions such as teaching, yet others having spent time in the Forces, some have degrees and higher degrees.

One of my friends did a Social Science degree - we met doing A levels at night school in the early 70’s , both had small children. I looked after hers in the school hols so she could do her degree
She joined the prison service on its governor grade for graduates scheme. She was 25, with 3 children. She had a very successful career which benefitted the prisons she governed. Some of the best governors she worked alongside had joined as prison officers-

Being a prison officer must be an incredibly hard, and dangerous, job. I would hazard a guess that few would be able, or even want, to do it.

and someone else in my school year ended up as a pruon officer as his degree had few openings.
ended up
Goodness, that sounds judgemental Cumbrianmale. Prison officers play a vital role in society.

Prison officers can rise through the ranks to become governors, others join having succeeded in other professions such as teaching, yet others having spent time in the Forces, some have degrees and higher degrees.

Bristol Grammar is actually a fee paying school..

Labradora Only a few counties now retain grammar schools and children in those areas can choose whether or not to take the 11 plus. I think there are only 150 grammar schools left.

I don’t remember taking my 11 plus either. I was a border line case and do remember having an interview at the technical school. Failed that but was top stream at the sec modern. My secondary education ended at 15 and I picked it up again twenty years later. Thank you Access Course.

I had never even heard of the 11 plus, I was just pulled out of class to the 'Moray House', which up to that point I had also never heard of. (Moray House is an institute of education in Edinburgh who set 11 plus equivalent tests recognised by UK educational establishment and sat by children not in the normal education system, in my case, just starting at an army school in Singapore).

The advantage is there is no time for nerves, it is not made to feel that it is life and death. just another of those tests education seems to be littered with, so, generally, you will be performing at your best

I don't remember a thing about that actual exam. Bizarre ??!
I do remember clearly the( preparatory ??)terminal tests in arithmetic , english and "intelligence" that we used to do.
The 11 plus itself-nothing.
I passed and went to the same Grammar School as my elder sister. I remember the "O" and "A" levels better.
I know nothing about the current UK system so couldn't comment about how it compares with the system that I went through.

and many children did not get to grammar school who would have done if the system was fair because the teachers took against them. This would have happened to many children we now recognise as neurally diverse, who faced with an exam paper would have got a grammar school place.

M0nica

Cumbrianmale56 It sounds a terrible sysytem. At least the 11 plus means whetehr you went to grammar school depended clearly on exam results.

Once you put it into the hands of teachers to decide on the baisi of school reports, it becomes biassed by teachers preferences, chidren can have one or two bad reports because of family problems, illness not registered at school and teachers who write bad reports for some children they do not like, it also works agains the maverick child who does not conform.

I had one or two teachers who took against me. I do not know why, and consistently marked my written work down and wrote bad reports. I can rememeber one teacher who really rubbished me. Come O levels I actually got the highest mark in my year in her subect.

I have always opposed the 11 plus, but better a straight forward exam than teachers choice with all its flaws.

It was an odd set up that nowhere else used and some kind of compromise berween a fully comprehensive and fully selective system. I think its main beneifts were for children who were so called borderline, where they had a choice and if they were good at sciences and maths, but poor at other subjects, the grammar school was better set up to teach these subjects. However, I do remember some middle class parents pushing housemasters to allow their children to go to the grammar school, even though they weren't academically inclined, as all the neighbours were sending their children to the school.
That said, I do know pupils from both schools who did really well and others that didn't. One who went to the grammar school from one of the poorest council estates in the town worked very hard and is now a very successful IT consultant in Australia. Another was " secondary", managed to get 6 CSEs, studied hard after school and obtained an MSC in electrical engineering. For those who were more humanities and languages based, it was more of a struggle, I work in a fairly poor job in the public sector as I couldn't find anything else and someone else in my school year ended up as a pruon officer as his degree had few openings.

Cumbrianmale56 It sounds a terrible sysytem. At least the 11 plus means whetehr you went to grammar school depended clearly on exam results.

Once you put it into the hands of teachers to decide on the baisi of school reports, it becomes biassed by teachers preferences, chidren can have one or two bad reports because of family problems, illness not registered at school and teachers who write bad reports for some children they do not like, it also works agains the maverick child who does not conform.

I had one or two teachers who took against me. I do not know why, and consistently marked my written work down and wrote bad reports. I can rememeber one teacher who really rubbished me. Come O levels I actually got the highest mark in my year in her subect.

I have always opposed the 11 plus, but better a straight forward exam than teachers choice with all its flaws.

The 11+ was scrapped in Cumberland in 1967, but a new system of secondary education was introduced where every pupil had to spend two years in a secondary modern and was then assessed whether or not they would go to the grammar school. What happened was half way through the second year, a head of house would meet up with the teachers and decide from your three school reports if you were suitable for the grammar school ot would stay in the secondary modern. You would then get a letter sent home in the February of the second year which would state grammar school, borderline( you could go to the grammar school, but stay in the secondary modern if you wanted) or secondary, which meant you had to stay in the secondary moden. I got the words " grammar school" on mine and my mother bought me a Monty Python LP for passing.
The system was more equitable as it removed the them and us situation of the 11+, but there were big differences once you changed schools at the start of the third form. The 25% who went to the grammar school took O and A levels, studied subjects like German and music that weren't taken in the secondary modetns, and had better qualified teachers. For the 75% stuck in the secondary moderns, subjects could only be taken as CSEs to age 16, and there was a heavy emphasis on craft subjects for boys and home economics for girls, with academuc subjects being less important.
This system, which was probably unique, ended in 1984 when all the local schools merged into 11-18 comprehensives and the 13+ was abolished. It was interesting that many of the secondary modern teachers who were over 50 that had basic teaching qualifications took early retirement, and the ex grammar teachers now had to teach a wider range of pupils( some retired early as well after a year or two). Also while the rigid distinctions with subjects and qualifications was phased out by 1986, the school did have streaming for various subjects.

LovesBach

REWIRING

I failed!!! However ended up with a 2.1 honours degree and law degree. Apparently when the teacher went round the class asking what we wanted to be when we grew up I said ‘ I want to be happy and enjoy myself’ I would say now not a bad aspiration

What a wonderful ambition for a child to have - I do hope you achieved that early wish. Apologies - off post - but when I was working in a school, a class of children were asked what they wanted to achieve; one little sweetheart replied 'To get the highest possible level of benefit'.

I want to be happy and enjoy myself

It is lovely, isn't it!
Not like materialistic me who wanted a car and telephone.

Perhaps I took being happy for granted but probably thought we might be happier still if we had both of those like my friends!

I find it extraordinary that so many had preparation of some sort for the exam all those years ago. It was barely mentioned in my school - certainly we didn't do any test papers or trial runs.

Knittypamela

I remember walking home afterwards and my friends were saying what their answers were. I was horrified as my answers were different. As it was, none of us passed. There was a scandal years later when it came to light that girls had marks taken off them.

I think that the percentage of girls passing the 11+ was much lower than the percentage of boys in most places.

There were fewer grammar school places available for girls. Even the mixed grammar schools tended to take more boys and there were simply more grammar schools and direct grant schools for boys. Therefore the pass mark for boys was lower.

Nano14

Marydoll

I knew I had passed, because I was sent to the school office to help the secretary sort out the letters. There were two piles, those who had passed and those, who were not so lucky. I didn't see the letters, but was able to work it out from the names in teh piles.
They were then given out at home time.

I remeber there was a maths and English tests, but if I remember correctly, also what were termed intelligence tests.

Yes, there was definitely an intelligence test. I think I heard I had passed by letter, sent to parents. I also seem to remember there were two parts. My sister only passed the first part and went to a secondary school, while I went to grammar school.

I seem to remember we were the first year to have only an intelligence test to determine who went to the senior secondary. I loved all those ‘ hat is to head as glove is to…….’ questions.
I presume the results came by post, as I remember meeting my first love on the way to school, and he told me he had failed. I was distraught.

The county I lived in didn’t do the 11+ anymore by the time I was due to leave primary school in 1970 . Some of very clever children sat tests for scholarships for local private schools .
I went to my local high school and was in the top sets , which meant we took O levels, the middle sets took a mixture of O levels and CSEs and the lower sets took CSEs . My school didn’t have a 6th form , so those wanting to do A levels had to move to another school . Some left school at 16 and some including myself went to the local polytechnics for further education.
We’re very close to the boarder of a LEA which still has grammar schools and both my AC sat the 11+ . They were both in the top sets and their teachers suggested they had the ability to pass, which they did.

REWIRING

I failed!!! However ended up with a 2.1 honours degree and law degree. Apparently when the teacher went round the class asking what we wanted to be when we grew up I said ‘ I want to be happy and enjoy myself’ I would say now not a bad aspiration

What a wonderful ambition for a child to have - I do hope you achieved that early wish. Apologies - off post - but when I was working in a school, a class of children were asked what they wanted to achieve; one little sweetheart replied 'To get the highest possible level of benefit'.

We had to write our name and address in best italic script with a fountain pen beforehand. Our results were sent, addressed to us, not our parents.
The letter offered me a choice of grammar school or comprehensive. In the event, I chose neither and went off to a lovely homely boarding school.
I still have my 11+ letter.

Is it too late to join these memories?
I took the 11+ exam in the mid 1950s. We had practised the “intelligence” part (called the AH4 I believe) for a while beforehand so we were well used to the format of the test.
My parents received a letter in a brown envelope and I was feeling sick with anticipation as it arrived. When opened, I found that I’d passed, but unlike the earlier mention of a mother’s “chagrin” my mother was so excited by the result that she ran out into the street immediately and knocked on the doors of all the neighbours madly screeching ‘my daughter has passed the scholarship’. It was then that I ‘realised’ that this had all been for her and I felt that somehow I was alienated - no longer a child yet unready for adulthood.
At Grammar school I found it a little difficult to fit in culturally - learning to say ‘large’ instead of ‘big’ for example. However, the teaching was excellent and though I left school when I was still 15 (born in August) I found that I must have absorbed a great deal when 20 years later I went back into education to study A levels, a degree and PhD.