School refuser, advice needed!

keepingquiet I agree.
But as I said above there may be a pre GCSE course at the local college.

In my experience the more adult nature of college courses suits some young people.
They can get funding from age 14 in the three areas near me/my daughter.

One of my grandchildren is currently going to college at 14.

keepingquiet

I used to work with these kind of troubled young people. We never used the term school refusers. Using lables like this isn't helpful.
Luckily, my LEA provided home school tuition which, as someone said above, has been cut back except in a few places.
Otherwise, it does mean an eventual CAMHS referral, but like every other service, this had also bene cut back and waiting lists are long and treatments often ineffective.
The mistake OP has made is to withdraw the child from school to give home schooling. The LEA are no longer responsible for the education of this child, and the responsibility has been handed to the parent.
Anyone considering this route needs to be fully prepared for the repercussions.
What advice can I give OP? Sadly very little- this is for the responsible parent to sort difficult though that is to accept.
I'm afraid this is a situation that could take a long time to resolve. Meanwhile as a grandparent try to maintain your normal relationship with your GC and stay away from pressuring him about going to school or learning.
Leave the situation be for a while and let mum sort out what she feels needs to be done.
Again, try not to be too judgemental about her decisions either- your role here is to support them through it as best you can.

We still don’t know which country these people are in, they may have completely different rules re local authorities or states (if in USA)

I absolutely agree though that the role of all adults around this child should be supportive and to try and find a way to discover what his issues actually are.

BrandyGran

A clinical psychologist told me this is a problem now. She says the biggest correlation they have found in school refusers is addiction to mobile phones.
They can interact all day with other users of TikTok etc and don’t feel lonely. It is difficult for a mother on her own to monitor a child’s use especially a 14 yr old boy. I feel strongly that iPhones should be banned til chn reach 16.
I realise this could only be part or none of the problem but worth considering.

I think it’s just one view, amongst many.

Allira

^A much better way is a total ban o phones being used actually within schools, and social media sites being more responsible about what they allow on their sites^.

Yes, agreed, but how would that help with school refusal?

I wonder how this is going to work in Australia in the long-term. 🤔

Absolutely no idea, sorry, it was just in answer to another comment around teenagers use of mobile phones.

keepingquiet

I used to work with these kind of troubled young people. We never used the term school refusers. Using lables like this isn't helpful.
Luckily, my LEA provided home school tuition which, as someone said above, has been cut back except in a few places.
Otherwise, it does mean an eventual CAMHS referral, but like every other service, this had also bene cut back and waiting lists are long and treatments often ineffective.
The mistake OP has made is to withdraw the child from school to give home schooling. The LEA are no longer responsible for the education of this child, and the responsibility has been handed to the parent.
Anyone considering this route needs to be fully prepared for the repercussions.
What advice can I give OP? Sadly very little- this is for the responsible parent to sort difficult though that is to accept.
I'm afraid this is a situation that could take a long time to resolve. Meanwhile as a grandparent try to maintain your normal relationship with your GC and stay away from pressuring him about going to school or learning.
Leave the situation be for a while and let mum sort out what she feels needs to be done.
Again, try not to be too judgemental about her decisions either- your role here is to support them through it as best you can.

Thank you, the voice of reason speaking here.

No one on a discussion site should say that the boy has severe mental health problems or is deeply distressed. I worked as a Headteacher and couldn't have diagnosed such issues at the drop of a hat because we don't know what is driving them. The problem could be just one, or several, Allira and others suggested a few. The boy's behaviour is an emotional response, but I agree with the advice to the grandparent to be supportive and helpful without any pressure. That's what the OP was asking for in her last two sentences.

I used to work with these kind of troubled young people. We never used the term school refusers. Using lables like this isn't helpful.
Luckily, my LEA provided home school tuition which, as someone said above, has been cut back except in a few places.
Otherwise, it does mean an eventual CAMHS referral, but like every other service, this had also bene cut back and waiting lists are long and treatments often ineffective.
The mistake OP has made is to withdraw the child from school to give home schooling. The LEA are no longer responsible for the education of this child, and the responsibility has been handed to the parent.
Anyone considering this route needs to be fully prepared for the repercussions.
What advice can I give OP? Sadly very little- this is for the responsible parent to sort difficult though that is to accept.
I'm afraid this is a situation that could take a long time to resolve. Meanwhile as a grandparent try to maintain your normal relationship with your GC and stay away from pressuring him about going to school or learning.
Leave the situation be for a while and let mum sort out what she feels needs to be done.
Again, try not to be too judgemental about her decisions either- your role here is to support them through it as best you can.

Could there be a platform on social media telling chn how to refuse to go to school?

A much better way is a total ban o phones being used actually within schools, and social media sites being more responsible about what they allow on their sites.

Yes, agreed, but how would that help with school refusal?

I wonder how this is going to work in Australia in the long-term. 🤔

BrandyGran

A clinical psychologist told me this is a problem now. She says the biggest correlation they have found in school refusers is addiction to mobile phones.
They can interact all day with other users of TikTok etc and don’t feel lonely. It is difficult for a mother on her own to monitor a child’s use especially a 14 yr old boy. I feel strongly that iPhones should be banned til chn reach 16.
I realise this could only be part or none of the problem but worth considering.

Whilst I, in part, agree, what on earth does one do with all the children who are under 16 now and have phones, I’d say almost every child at Secondary School has a mobile phone if some type? Also how would this be policed?

A much better way is a total ban o phones being used actually within schools, and social media sites being more responsible about what they allow on their sites.

eazybee

I would say this boy is 'out of control,' as in his mother cannot control him, not even to the extent of a trip to the doctor. He is fourteen, and seems to have done as he pleases, for whatever reasons, for the last two years. He and she definitely need professional intervention, and soon.
I wondered if this was an American situation, with the reference to college funding.

Too young for college, not sure I understand that comment?

A clinical psychologist told me this is a problem now. She says the biggest correlation they have found in school refusers is addiction to mobile phones.
They can interact all day with other users of TikTok etc and don’t feel lonely. It is difficult for a mother on her own to monitor a child’s use especially a 14 yr old boy. I feel strongly that iPhones should be banned til chn reach 16.
I realise this could only be part or none of the problem but worth considering.

I would say this boy is 'out of control,' as in his mother cannot control him, not even to the extent of a trip to the doctor. He is fourteen, and seems to have done as he pleases, for whatever reasons, for the last two years. He and she definitely need professional intervention, and soon.
I wondered if this was an American situation, with the reference to college funding.

I totally agree, though sadly it’s a postcode lottery with CAHMS, or whatever they call themselves now.

Yes, it is.
And yes, the name changes and the way they work changes too.

Allira

There are a lot of children around his age who seem to have developed school phobia.
He is not naughty, he may not even know why he is behaving this and he needs professional help.

It could be anxiety over a combination of things; Covid lockdowns, moving to a larger school which could be overwhelming, there could be bullying going on which he is not talking about and school is not aware of or, like many schools, is not dealing with adequately. Bullying does not necessarily mean physical bullying or even face to face, it could be via social media and can be insidious.

Fining parents is not the answer. They need help and, from what I have read on here, he needs an urgent referral to CAHMS.
Possibly he chooses his options around now so he need help if he is going to get back into mainstream schooling. Obviously home schooling is not the answer here.

I hope help will be available for him asap, sankev.

I totally agree, though sadly it’s a postcode lottery with CAHMS, or whatever they call themselves now.

Acting swiftly is imperative, please don’t ignore these signs.

PS you write "moms" this is American English, therefore I guess you live in the US. I hope the US health care system can cope.

Personally I believe he is just choosing to be naughty’ simply because he knows his mom isn’t able to do anything about it!

Probably not choosing to be naughty. He may not even know why he is behaving like this.
That is why he needs professional help from CAHMS or similar.

sankev

Thank you for all your replies. Personally I believe he is just choosing to be naughty’ simply because he knows his mom isn’t able to do anything about it! I don’t believe he is autistic or adhd but have tried to get her to take him to the gp. He refused to go! She has requested help but all she is getting at the moment are demands for her to show how his home schooling is developing! They said because she chose to go down the home schooling route and he wasn’t actually expelled from school that she is responsible. It was really a matter of her jumping before he was shoved! She felt it was better than him being expelled long term It also means she can’t get funding for him to attend a college now he has turned 14! It’s all such a mess and she seems to be running around in circles and getting nowhere.

Your reasoning is stupidly simplistic!

For the sake of the boy, please do urge your daughter to take the advice of all the grans whose posts preceded my post.

There are a lot of children around his age who seem to have developed school phobia.
He is not naughty, he may not even know why he is behaving this and he needs professional help.

It could be anxiety over a combination of things; Covid lockdowns, moving to a larger school which could be overwhelming, there could be bullying going on which he is not talking about and school is not aware of or, like many schools, is not dealing with adequately. Bullying does not necessarily mean physical bullying or even face to face, it could be via social media and can be insidious.

Fining parents is not the answer. They need help and, from what I have read on here, he needs an urgent referral to CAHMS.
Possibly he chooses his options around now so he need help if he is going to get back into mainstream schooling. Obviously home schooling is not the answer here.

I hope help will be available for him asap, sankev.

Btw, in which country are you all living?

Well, there could be so so many reasons he’s “refusing” education.

Home schooling, particularly at Secondary level is a massive task.

There could be so many reasons, or combinations of reasons, why your DGS is acting like this and I’d go with the GP referral, and this is from personal experience with my now adult children, if it can be afforded I’d consider private child psychologist or psychiatrist appointment to rule out (or in) any conditions.

In any event I wish you all well.

As so often the voice of common sense from MOnica.

sankev

Thank you for all your replies. Personally I believe he is just choosing to be naughty’ simply because he knows his mom isn’t able to do anything about it! I don’t believe he is autistic or adhd but have tried to get her to take him to the gp. He refused to go! She has requested help but all she is getting at the moment are demands for her to show how his home schooling is developing! They said because she chose to go down the home schooling route and he wasn’t actually expelled from school that she is responsible. It was really a matter of her jumping before he was shoved! She felt it was better than him being expelled long term It also means she can’t get funding for him to attend a college now he has turned 14! It’s all such a mess and she seems to be running around in circles and getting nowhere.

I am sorry *sankev' but it is clear that you are one of those people who have no time for all this mental health nonsense.

But if a 14 year old is doing what your grandson is doing even if you think I believe he is just choosing to be naughty’ simply because he knows his mom isn’t able to do anything about it!

Then the fact he is doing that says there is a mental health issue because a normal well-balanced 14 year old will not behave like that. Personally, and this is just cod phsychology, as I have no ualifications of any kind, but to me he sounds deeply depressed.

His mother should talk to his doctor or practice mental health specialist(who may be a nurse) about him. At 14, he is still young enough for that to be possible. It does not matter whether he will attend the appointment. She should go on her own, but ask to see the mental health specialist.

Home education is a choice made by the parent(s).
Once you take a child out of school it is entirely your responsibility to see that they get an education suited to their "age ability and aptitude and any special educational needs they may have."

This is the issue. She was obviously badly advised to take him out - as if he was still registered with a school the Local Educational Authority would be obliged to help.

There was a period some years ago when schools were "suggesting" home education to the parents of "difficult" children - now they aren't allowed to do this.

However, I'd check with the local college as many now have home education or age 14 plus sections that are less pressure than school.

Did he agree to the move to home education?
Or was it a fait accompli?

Years ago when all state schools were LEA, they'd provide a few hours a week of home tuition for pupils who weren't in school (pregnant or broken leg, awaiting placement whatever). The modern day equivalent seems to be Education Otherwise Than At School (EOTAS). I suggest she has a look to see what's available locally in her area

As an erstwhile teacher am wondering if the boy might have difficulties reading or writing, as they get older they get better at masking by acting up or truanting, or in your DDs case her son could just be refusing any schooling at all. Dyslexia is possible but usually diagnosed at Junior school level, however, this doesn’t rule out other problems with literacy. Was he struggling at school, not handing in homework, having detentions for this, acting up in class etc?
It just sounds like avoidance tactics to me, rather than simply being naughty.