School refuser, advice needed!

I think the opposite.
To those who claim they do not need a degree of intelligence.

welbeck

I don't understand the last comment.
Why would you think being an electrician is or should be an unskilled ie not needing a qualification.

Exactly what part of my comment do you not understand?

I said exactly the opposite.

It is other posters who think you do not require a certain level of intelligence to become an electrician or any other skilled tradesperson in fact.
In fact, they must have intelligence and common sense.

I think the opposite.

I don't understand the last comment.
Why would you think being an electrician is or should be an unskilled ie not needing a qualification.

Caleo

Allira

Caleo

M0nica

Allira

I don't want to employ a tradesperson, especially an electrician, who has not managed to gain a qualification in Maths, English and Physics.

Personally, I would prefer to employ a well trained and able electrician, rather than one who has gained a ualification in maths, English, physics, but who is really useless at electrical work.

Why not a skilled , qualified electrician who is also a published poet or historian?

I don't mind in the slightest if he or she is a published poet or historian. We could chat happily about either in the coffee breaks.

However, it is totally irrelevant to becoming a qualified electrician, whereas Maths, Physics and competency in the English language is.

When I plug in the washing machine I want to know that the person who rewired my house had the required qualifications, not that he or she was the new Lord Byron or Simon Schama, fascinating though they might be.

The best linguistic register for communicating information about practical matters is explicit language. Explicit language is learned from others who can use it and from some printed material.

Of course!

Of course! Lord Byron is very explicit about Ohm's Law, MCBs, Impedance. I remember his poem called Phase.

Oh dear.

You'd think apprenticeships for becoming a tradesperson such as an electrician etc was open to anyone without a single qualification.
Similar to the most mundane job such as stacking shelves (yes, I did that job once for a short time when I was young and it's more technical than you think but doesn't require a single GCSE).

Some countries respect their skilled tradespeople.
It is obvious the British do not.

An electrician needs to be up to date on their qualification.
It's a trade qualification.
Academic ability is irrelevant.

Allira

Caleo

M0nica

Allira

I don't want to employ a tradesperson, especially an electrician, who has not managed to gain a qualification in Maths, English and Physics.

Personally, I would prefer to employ a well trained and able electrician, rather than one who has gained a ualification in maths, English, physics, but who is really useless at electrical work.

Why not a skilled , qualified electrician who is also a published poet or historian?

I don't mind in the slightest if he or she is a published poet or historian. We could chat happily about either in the coffee breaks.

However, it is totally irrelevant to becoming a qualified electrician, whereas Maths, Physics and competency in the English language is.

When I plug in the washing machine I want to know that the person who rewired my house had the required qualifications, not that he or she was the new Lord Byron or Simon Schama, fascinating though they might be.

The best linguistic register for communicating information about practical matters is explicit language. Explicit language is learned from others who can use it and from some printed material.

In fact, that comes across as a load of pretentious intellectualism.

Caleo

M0nica

Allira

I don't want to employ a tradesperson, especially an electrician, who has not managed to gain a qualification in Maths, English and Physics.

Personally, I would prefer to employ a well trained and able electrician, rather than one who has gained a ualification in maths, English, physics, but who is really useless at electrical work.

Why not a skilled , qualified electrician who is also a published poet or historian?

I don't mind in the slightest if he or she is a published poet or historian. We could chat happily about either in the coffee breaks.

However, it is totally irrelevant to becoming a qualified electrician, whereas Maths, Physics and competency in the English language is.

When I plug in the washing machine I want to know that the person who rewired my house had the required qualifications, not that he or she was the new Lord Byron or Simon Schama, fascinating though they might be.

Caleo

M0nica

Allira

I don't want to employ a tradesperson, especially an electrician, who has not managed to gain a qualification in Maths, English and Physics.

Personally, I would prefer to employ a well trained and able electrician, rather than one who has gained a ualification in maths, English, physics, but who is really useless at electrical work.

Why not a skilled , qualified electrician who is also a published poet or historian?

Why not? I am employing a lot of tradesmen currently as we are doing up aa house and I have had fascinating discussins with several of the tradesmen, brutalist architecture with one (He liked it, I hate it). I have given tours of our house (it is over 500 years old) and discussed its construction use and history, including all the witch signs, and learnt a lot about the construction and dates for some ofthe brickwork from my tradesmen.

Caleo

M0nica

Allira

I don't want to employ a tradesperson, especially an electrician, who has not managed to gain a qualification in Maths, English and Physics.

Personally, I would prefer to employ a well trained and able electrician, rather than one who has gained a ualification in maths, English, physics, but who is really useless at electrical work.

Why not a skilled , qualified electrician who is also a published poet or historian?

Skills and creative ideas are not mutually inconsistent.

M0nica

Allira

I don't want to employ a tradesperson, especially an electrician, who has not managed to gain a qualification in Maths, English and Physics.

Personally, I would prefer to employ a well trained and able electrician, rather than one who has gained a ualification in maths, English, physics, but who is really useless at electrical work.

Why not a skilled , qualified electrician who is also a published poet or historian?

Maybe look up "deschooling"

Sometimes it takes a long time to put school behind you and set off on a new more positive path.

There will almost certainly be an "Education Otherwise" group near you - or a home education group.

My daughter uses Facebook to keep in touch with other home-educators.
Not at all the same as when we were home educating - but even then there were maybe 80 families in our county.

Thinking of you all.

Yes he really does. He loves working with his hands and being outside. He desperately wants to work with his uncle and would do so now if he were legally allowed. He does go out with him to price up jobs and can actually do very accurate calculations himself. I feel quite positive about his long term prospects, at the moment I am really trying to help him and my very stressed daughter navigate the demands of the education authority to support him until he ages out. And yes I do understand the LEA and only doing there job and they provide a very valuable resource but there are exceptions to the rule sometimes and I feel this is probably one of those.

The most important thing: does your grandson want to do this course.
That matters more than anything.

Thank you Cossy, it’s nice to see some positivity 🙏

sankev

Again many thanks to those who are taking the time to share their experiences and give some insight into different aspects and options. I will look at your suggestions golden age, we really are willing to try everything. I said in one of my previous posts I thought he was choosing to be naughty, this was wrong. What I meant was I don’t believe he has the typical ADHD or ASD traits. Obviously some mental health issues are involved or he wouldn’t just choose not to do anything he doesn’t! But he’s not actually a naughty young man but he is extremely stubborn and strong willed. As for his future apprenticeship, this will be on the job training and he is more than capable practically and quite honestly academically! Thankfully he won’t be competing with others for the job as his uncle is willing to take him on and train him and pay for him to sit the relevant exams. Can I just say to the many people out there who are going through the same thing I feel for you all. And the people who are successful in homeschooling then give yourselves a pat on the back.

I think your lovely DGS will be fine. If he’s able to at least do something each day working towards his apprenticeship, keep himself occupied and stay out of trouble, frankly I would be inclined to leave him be.

School and academia really isn’t the be all and end all, it’s just we are “structured” in this way.

keepingquiet

OP I don't think it is wrong to just let him be. Sometimes what these kids need is a bit of space. He sounds like a good lad with lots of practical skills that could be put to good use.

I completely agree

Again many thanks to those who are taking the time to share their experiences and give some insight into different aspects and options. I will look at your suggestions golden age, we really are willing to try everything. I said in one of my previous posts I thought he was choosing to be naughty, this was wrong. What I meant was I don’t believe he has the typical ADHD or ASD traits. Obviously some mental health issues are involved or he wouldn’t just choose not to do anything he doesn’t! But he’s not actually a naughty young man but he is extremely stubborn and strong willed. As for his future apprenticeship, this will be on the job training and he is more than capable practically and quite honestly academically! Thankfully he won’t be competing with others for the job as his uncle is willing to take him on and train him and pay for him to sit the relevant exams. Can I just say to the many people out there who are going through the same thing I feel for you all. And the people who are successful in homeschooling then give yourselves a pat on the back.

One of my DDs has been trying to get help from CAMHS for years now. One of her daughters is currently an angel at school but continues to cause havoc at home. She has tantrums for no apparent reason before school (she wants Mum to take her in the car). She’s rude, uncooperative, refuses food if she doesn’t fancy it, only showers/washes once a week, won’t put her clothes away, bullies both her Mum and her fraternal twin. She just says no quite often and can’t be shifted! School is aware of this (junior school) and is very supportive to her. The authorities until recently have refused to help but things have started moving!

My GD wrote a letter to herself after Christmas accusing herself of being horrible, doesn’t deserve Xmas presents, hates herself etc. etc. My daughter took it to the doctors and told him yet again that all was not well. She’s finally having initial help from SIPS/CAMHS from referral from her doctor.

The counsello she spoke to asked relevant questions, asked her about GD, asked DD about her own mental health including does she have counselling, is she taking anti-depressants….
She will be completing some other forms to give more complete information. DD is separated from her partner and he is only interested in being Wonderful Daddy. He also has similar symptoms to DG!

You might find the following interesting:
www.pdasociety.org.uk/support-and-training/support/#support-tabs%7C1

www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/behaviour/demand-avoidance#The%20history%20of%20and%20debate%20about%20the%20PDA%20label

www.differentnotdeficient.co.uk/

www.neurospectrum.co.uk/

Have a read through the websites I’ve sent to you if you think it will help. I’ve found it very difficult to to support my DD and GD. Puberty has probably made the whole thing worse and DD has quite a hot tempter and is borderline ‘different’. She asked me if I would help her fill in the information sheets as we both have different experiences with DG.

My thoughts are with you. It’s all so difficult but I hope you can find help somewhere.

Love 💐💐

M0nica

Allira

I don't want to employ a tradesperson, especially an electrician, who has not managed to gain a qualification in Maths, English and Physics.

Personally, I would prefer to employ a well trained and able electrician, rather than one who has gained a ualification in maths, English, physics, but who is really useless at electrical work.

FGS!

So - someone who is useless at Maths and Physics and can't string a sentence together is supposed to have the ability to become a competent and qualified electrician?

No wonder able and clever pupils are hesitant about becoming tradespeople when they are so disparaged by the intellectual elite.

Allira

I don't think some posters understand skilled apprenticeships and what they entail at all.

We do but know that there are other ways to skin a cat. As others have said, they may not have GCSE's but have other ways of acquiring these skills. Working practically and seeing these skills in action is often a far better way to learn the things you are talking about. You can then build upon them.

Allira

I don't want to employ a tradesperson, especially an electrician, who has not managed to gain a qualification in Maths, English and Physics.

Personally, I would prefer to employ a well trained and able electrician, rather than one who has gained a ualification in maths, English, physics, but who is really useless at electrical work.

Allira. If they don’t have GCSE maths when they start their apprenticeship, they will need to do Functional Skills maths as part of their apprenticeship which is a more practical approach to maths. Particularly with the trades, it’s a more practical approach with both the trade and maths quals complementing each other. What do you think an apprenticeship entails?

sankev - please google PDA - Pathological Demand Avoidance - this is a neurodivergent state characterised by the need to avoid everyday demands since they represent anxieties and place the person who has PDA out of control. I know you've said you think he's simply being naughty, and others have suggested the GP and children's mental health services but sadly this particular service is under-resourced given the proliferation of ADHD diagnoses among teenagers and your grandson will wait for a long time. The private sector would be your way forward if affordable and a psychologist with expertise in adolescent behaviour would at least be able to tell you after just one appointment whether or not your grandson is truly neurodivergent and masking his anxieties with non-co-operative behaviour or is just being naughty as you put it. I suspect it's the former - sorry, but there's usually a reason why teenagers don't want to go to school and that's to do with the belief that they can't cope in that environment for any number of reasons.