“We start school too early in the UK!”

I could also read quite well at three MOnica, my older sister taught me how she had been taught at school and I loved it. I was no childhood genius though, as I was and still am, hopeless at anything numerical. I still love reading though.

We are a low tax country.
Scandinavia pays for its services willingly it seems to me.

Our Swedish relatives tell us this is so.

You cannot make sweeping claims about any group of children at any age.

DD taught herself to read around her 3rd birthday and when her older brother went to school she insisted I had to do 'proper' school' with her if she was at home when her brother was at school. I tried to palm her off with colouring, dot to dot books and similar things, but she wasn't having any of it. She wanted reading, writing and arithematic.

I have known other children not ready to read and learn in a structured way until 7.

As I said, you you simply cannot make rules about when children are ready to larn. I bet in many of those countries where formal learning does not start until,6 or 7. a significant number of children of that age are already reading fluenetly.

Is the thought by all those "experts" that due to the education in the UK being so bad children need to start at 3 years of age just to reach a reasonable standard. How on earth did all the generations who started at 5+ ever manage to get to university, learn a skilled trade, manage companies just work to survive. I fear it will be yet another case of someone else's responsibility to educate tge young on how to use cutlery, clean teeth, dress, don't mention toileting.
The UK always seems to hold Scandinavia up as having the best standards of everything, especially for children but UK is choosing to ignore that.

mumofmadboys

And NO: teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.

Of course parents teach. They are the primary educators. Education is so much more than reading,writing and arithmetic!

Parents, grandparents, spending time and patience with pre schoolers is invaluable. I agree each child is individual. I have x2- 5year old GC only 10 days apart in age both completely different educationally.
Keeping either off them for another year, not good for either of these 2. My other GD who is 9 had a lot of her early years education put on hold due to Covid. She missed out on pre school and most of the her Reception year, as the school kept shutting.

So if this should be curtailed, and only Teachers Teach, perhaps the BBC should stop putting on CBBC, programs like "Number blocks" and "Alphablocks" which have been hailed as excellent Educational programs, and have advanced children numbers and recognising letters.
My 5years old Grandson has this playing in the classroom at the end of the school day, while they all wait for pick up, Teachers love it.

I kept my firstborn back a year from school as she was only just four and a very shy anxious child. We had recently moved to Wales and were halfway up a mountain. I also had a two year old and a newborn baby and no transport.
The extra year at home was great, I taught her to read and write and do sums and a year later she was better able to cope with school.
Her sisters started school at just four but I always thought four is too young.

Maybe those in charge of education should realise that one size does not fit all when it comes to learning.

The curriculum stifles creativity, handcuffs teachers, and for the clever children bores them silly.

Children learn trough role play, building bricks, painting, story time all of which is prevalent in pre-schools/nurseries, Reception and Yr 1 classes.

It is Yr 2 when they are expected to knuckle down and the playing gives way to a more formal approach to learning.

Well put Daddima
When I’ve read on GN, how many posters including me, could read before they started school does that make their parents or grandparents bad people?

The only problem with preschool readers was that some parents had to accept that it didn’t automatically make them good spellers.
One issue with preschool writing in the 1980s was that children came in only writing in capitals, some only knowing letter names.
Nothing wrong with singing ABC, DEFG and knowing capitals benefited them later on, but I still remember one child who refused to try lower case formation, until I made it part of a tracing challenge. He was keen to be the best tracer and letter formation stopped being a problem.

Not only do primary children start school too young, teenagers start school too early. At that age biology prioritizes their sleep, so waking them up at six is equivalent to waking an adult at 4 in the morning and expecting them to go to work.

And NO: teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.

Interesting from * AuntieE* there. So, what were parents and grandparents doing when they were reading to children, talking and listening to children, letting them help with kitchen tasks like weighing, measuring, making things with leftover pastry, playing with liquids and various containers, drawing and painting, sorting shapes, going through granny’s button box or daddy’s coin collection, and that’s just off the top of my head!
I also never met a teacher who objected to a child being able to read when they started school. If you have a child who wants to read, I’d love to know how you would go about trying to stop them.

winterwhite

Daddima I'm one who used the term formal education and what I meant was mandatory schooling, not optional, if that's an acceptable term.

Nothing to do with sitting at desks in rows. Those days had long gone when my own children started school.

Hi, winterwhite, it’s not just you, it’s a term I see used often regarding children’s education, and working in Early Years I encountered many parents who dismissed what was happening as ‘just playing’!

teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.

So how can we stop our children learning?
Just wondering...

And NO: teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.

Of course parents teach. They are the primary educators. Education is so much more than reading,writing and arithmetic!

I was told once (don't know if it's true) that wealthy and titled individuals wanted the option to employ their own teachers/ governesses and it was because of this that the "or otherwise" clause was included.

It has become a big piece of the law for some of us.

Yes. It has never been mandatory.

I wasn’t aware that was possible in the early seventies NotSpaghetti. It never occurred to me that I could choose.

We don't have "Mandatory Schooling" in the UK of course - we have compulsory education "either by regular attendance at school or otherwise"

Daddima I'm one who used the term formal education and what I meant was mandatory schooling, not optional, if that's an acceptable term.

Nothing to do with sitting at desks in rows. Those days had long gone when my own children started school.

You can choose as a parent, Bazza
Many do.
We did.

I find the references to ‘formal education’ really interesting, and wonder exactly what people mean when they say that. Do they believe that nursery or kindergarten are ‘just playing’, or at best, ‘learning through play’, though that’s something which can be seen to continue long after age seven. ‘ Hands on’ and self directed learning is much more common ( and effective) now, and the days of what someone referred to as sitting at a desk for six or seven hours a day are thankfully long gone. Could that be what people consider formal education to be? I suggest they could be in for a shock if they were to visit many a classroom today, as they are hives of activity, with some fabulous learning happening.

I was just writing to say that even children that have interrupted education can succeed

At age 11 I spent a lot of time hospitalised with hip problems .
Thankfully my teacher and school recognised my ability were able to put me forward for grammar school .
I recovered after a long time in hospital. .
Went to the g1981rammar school, obtained excellent exam results and have been a doctor since 19800

The reception class at the school that three of my four grandchildren attended from the age of 4 (and that the fourth will join in September) seems to be very flexible on'formal' learning in those early years. Their main aim that year seems to be to settle the children in happily and provide a positive experience. There is a huge emphasis on learning through play, and no pressure whatsoever (not from the staff, anyway, though cant speak for all of the parents) on them to learn formally.

I remember when my first DGC started there - he was one of the younger ones (as was DGC number three, and as number four will be too) and could barely even stay awake through the day, and there is no way he would do any of the 'homework' that was suggested. Fortunately, when this was discussed, the teacher made it absolutely clear that the children should absolutely not be pushed to do it at that stage as doing that could so easily be damaging.
That first year was, and still is in that school, about laying the ground for the future, and it seems to work very well indeed.

I suppose that what I am trying to say is that just because we call it school, rather than kindergarten or anything else, it doesn't have to mean that the children are being pushed to learn any more than children of a similar age in other country where there is a different name for that level of childcare/ education.

Macaydia

Very interesting that you should mention that. My aunt who was a Community Nurse said that after delivering thousands of babies, the girls are more mature and alert than the boys, right after birth.

Not always - my first DS was always very old for his age, particularly as a pre-schooler.

When my DF died suddenly & he was 3, he was chatting to my Mum & found out she's never slept on her own in her life.

He came & told me that, & I slept with her for a few nights just to take the edge off.It wouldn't have occurred to me.

He was bright too, but mainly always thoughtful & watchful, as long back as I can remember.

I grew up abroad and was at kindergarten from 3 to 6, then started primary school at 6. At 8 I returned with my family to England and found myself near the top of my English primary school class. I found out that the others had all started school at 5, and without any pre-school, playgroup or kindergarten experience. So that year I "lost", didn't seem to do me any harm at all. The age of 6 seems an optimal age to begin formal learning. Before that, learning from being allowed to play under skilled supervision, makes a very valuable contribution.

I believe 4 is far too young to start formal schooling. Many children of this age are still very immature, and struggle badly with being separated from their mothers for such long periods. In my opinion, a shorter day with constructive play, is much better for them.