Early reading v continental custom - teachers’ thoughts sought

Both I and DS could read a bit before we started school. Learning early certainly didn't put him off and he's still an avid reader.

However, I do wish that children here could be taught the skills that Polish children are learning before starting school. DiL teaches reception and most of the children have no listening or social skills.

Greyduster

^that would open a can of worms if it was introduced in the uk^

It’s a can of worms we need to open and soon. Driving all children down a largely academic educational path like cattle is why we are failing many of them.

I’m sure you’ve read Alan Millburns ideas. It’s been a long time coming, let’s hope it comes to fruition. At least the PM is behind his ideas/ plans.

Greyduster

^that would open a can of worms if it was introduced in the uk^

It’s a can of worms we need to open and soon. Driving all children down a largely academic educational path like cattle is why we are failing many of them.

And creating "syndromes" where they might not be any.

It's terribly sad. Little boys in particular do not do well sitting on a carpet or holding a pencil too early.

Is the child growing up bilingual?
Hopefully, your son has read to him in English and he was learning to read English books in an informal and enjoyable way with his father, without pressure.

If so, by the time he starts school in September he would be familiar with books and, surprisingly, children seem to be able to switch from one language to another quite easily. Although sometimes words from their other language may slip in!

Our friend's grandson is trilingual at age 9 and happily switches between languages, translating for his two Grannies.

"When I think of my children at their private nursery schools in London 30 years ago having to sit tracing over letters endlessly - because that’s what we were told they needed to do"

There's a happy medium. Learning to enjoy books and being read to is important.
Tracing over letters that mean nothing except shapes could be very boring.

I have been a lecturer and teacher and have the full TEFL post graduate as well as my degree, and have taught from infants to adults and including teaching in a Montessori. Have lived abroad and so experienced all sorts of styles , and in particular have often been asked by bilingual families the best way to help their children learn, in both speaking and writing different languages.

So overall, I do think that reading stories and looking at pictures and nursery rhymes and poetry and songs, are there from very early on within the family, and encouraging bedtime story reading and looking at books together is a really good way to start for any children. We , teaching staff, found that in bilingual families, the best way to grow up with that invaluable skill of having two languages, was for each parent to speak their own language to the child, especially when they are little. So that even if the child asks you something in the other language, if you reply in your native language, they then not only gain the right pronunciation, but also the grammar and structure , which can be very different, with such things as genders of objects or where the verb goes in a sentence. The majority of the children would be a little slower than the single language in learning, but then they are able to assimilate the whole structures, and almost without trying will naturally use the appropriate forms for each one. By the parents or family using their own language, then even if the other parent is a good speaker of a language , the native speaker will make less mistakes .

Then having good books in both language and picture books that each parent can talk about in their own language , also helps . Every country has its own ways and have good and bad points. When I was moving around in Europe, parents who had to move often from country to country, would tend to go for the French Lycee system , because there , whichever country you went to ,the french lycee system was quite rigid and so on a monday in june class 4 would be on page 6 of book 3, so your child would have an easier move, without having those gaps or repeating the same norman history 3 times. But against that I personally think it is very rigid and allowed very little leeway so that the child who was average at a subject would be ok. The child who was advanced would be bored and put off, and the child struggling would be stressed and struggling.

So enjoy being granny and know that when you take them new books and read to them in bed you are helping a lot. I must say that I used to find other benefits for such children, as they were really aware of different ways of life from an early age, could convert their pocket money from one currency to another like the stock exchange and we would have interesting talks about the different things and foods etc that they had. So long as we respect each side and talk about any differences in a positive way , it always worked out well I found.

I will just add a couple of things that I think show how children from quite an early age can figure out how their world works. When I lived in Portugal , my parents came to visit bringing my youngest sister on her first trip abroad at age 4. She looked and listened and then started asking " what is this called and that called in portugese" followed by asking what her name was in portuguese. Then looked round and said " Oh , they just use different words" At her age she was still learning new english vocabulary so saw no difficulty in adding more words. An english friend who had been living there for I think 2 years had 3 girls, The two older children had arrived with english as their main language but soon picked up good portuguese, but the youngest one was only about one when they arrived and portuguese was her first language. Later the father had promotion and went out to, I think, the Bahamas for a while , but knew that they would be moving to Brazil later. The parents decided to keep talking portuguese at home so that they would not lose their good accents etc . The two older children were fine with that , but the youngest, when her father spoke to her in portuguese, looked at him and said in english " they dont speak portuguese here" and after that would respond to any questions only in english and stuck to that. They then moved on to Brazil and she immediately talked in portuguese. They are grown up now but speak several languages which they have learnt from their travels, but we thought that was quite interesting.

I hope I havent gone on too long, but given you some ideas to think about. When they are a little older, and are visiting you or you visit them, then I think that baking is a great thing to do. So there is much measuring and so forth, but you either are telling them how you make your favourite cake, or they are explaining how you make something from a polish recipe and so reading recipes and then enjoying eating the results is a great learning skill, so you might look for a simple recipe book in english for children and take that with you too. I feel personally that children with the opportunity to have two threads to their lives are enriched far more than any slight delay in beginning, and grow up usually with a respect for other people and an open attitude that will help them throughout their lives.

petra

^that would open a can of worms if it was introduced in the uk^
There are a lot of plans in the uk to move towards that system.

I didn't have any choice, my children taught themselves to read well under 5 as did I and DH.

The method was simply that we were read to a lot and had favourite books that were much read and we soon worked out the connection between the spoken words and the words on the page.

Whoops, that reply is irrelevant to quote.

The reply to the quote is:

If any UK government decided to do that it would be an economy measure and spending on pre-school education would not be increased to meet the gap, with all the effects it would have on the quality of education in this country.

M0nica makes a really good point.

Every time this comes up, I look at the staff pupil ratio of the country that is being held up as wonderful and doing it better than the UK.
This has been going on since early in my teaching career when the formula to aspire to was that of Reggio Emilia.

Early Years teachers back then were subject to endless INSET on how they should be using the Reggio Amelia approach.
It was interesting and had potential, but impossible to reproduce in the UK when e.g. I had a class of 38 mixed Reception/Y1 children and no TA in those days.
Despite that, children I taught did learn to read, write and do basic maths even in reception, alongside the learn through play curriculum that we used.

In Poland, the average staff-to-pupil (teacher-to-student) ratio varies by school level.
Elementary or primary schools average about 10 to 12 pupils per teacher.

Secondary schools average about 9 pupils per teacher,
and higher education or tertiary institutions average around 17 students per teacher.

Just read that again.
School Levels and Ratios:
Primary School: ~10–12 pupils per teacher
Secondary School: ~9 pupils per teacher Higher Education: ~17 students per teacher

The UK government ANY UK government is not going to do that.
I agree that there now appears to be less development of conversational and social skills in many preschool children, so we are going to have to address those areas even more.
However, that isn’t going to happen in classes of 30 with 1 teacher, 1 TA, however good they are.
Re reading?
If children have a good command of language, reading will be easier.
New strategies and consistent use of those strategies all help.
So many children including mine and my DGC learn to read before school.
What would you have them do until they reach 7?

M0nica

Whoops, that reply is irrelevant to quote.

The reply to the quote is:

If any UK government decided to do that it would be an economy measure and spending on pre-school education would not be increased to meet the gap, with all the effects it would have on the quality of education in this country.

You mean being 14th in the world in PISA scores?
I don't know why people are so negative (and I am a retired Inspector of schools).
Yes there is work to do in developing vocational education. Let's hope it happens this time round.

So overall, I do think that reading stories and looking at pictures and nursery rhymes and poetry and songs, are there from very early on within the family, and encouraging bedtime story reading and looking at books together is a really good way to start for any children.

I heartily agree with this, but the sad fact is that in this digital age, the culture of sitting down and reading a book with your children, as we did with both ours and with our GS, is, in some sections of society, rapidly becoming a thing of the past. Some parents have neither the time nor the inclination to sit down and read with their children and these children never see a book outside school because there are no books at home. Anything they “read” comes off a screen. I spend time in a junior school helping children of various abilities with their reading. Some 7 year olds come up from reception years barely able to read at all. Others are very competent readers with a good vocabulary. It tells its own story.

Yes, greyduster, I could not agree more, having been been obliged to teach mixed ability secondary kids. It works for none of them.......(stops before starting rant)

I learned to read when I was five and in Kindergarten - because my father taught me, using some old readers that we had. Apparently, I came home from Kindergarten totally disgusted because they wouldn't guarantee that we would learn to read - this had been a dream of mine for awhile. While I recall Dad teaching me, I don't recall the catalyst for it.

Years later, I learned that when DAD went to school for the first time (no Kindergarten in those days - just a one-week orientation in the spring before they started Grade 1 in the fall), HE came home from school and announced to Grandma that school wasn't much good because they hadn't learned to read yet!!!

Show your son these posts . He mustn't worry- no big deal in the grand scheme of things.

I often have children say to me “why do we have to read?” The only thing I can tell them is that all of life, the past, the future is built on our ability to read the written word, and, in our turn, to make a contribution, however small, to society and to history, which depends on the written word. Some of the outlooks for their own futures - at such a tender age - are very narrow, as were ours I suppose at the same age.

My father left school at 14. He could read, spell, had basic arithmetic and beautiful handwriting. He read with me and to me as a young child, took me to the library, shared his reading tastes, and criticised mine as a teenager. He wrote wonderful letters to me when I left home. Some of his contemporaries never learned to read. Reading never got him a better job, or furthered his education, but it broadened his mind and let him escape from his narrow life.

Children have such advantages these days. All you want is to see them seize them with both hands.

Sorry - probably not relevant but if he had not fired a spark in me, I would not have been able to pass that spark on to my children, and each generation hopefully does better than the last, because of that spark.

My Canadian grandchildren started French Immersion school aged 5 -6 and speak fluent French. It's a multi-cultural society where I live and not unusual to meet children who speak 3 or more languages. The early school years are less formal than the UK with lots of school trips and an emphasis on social skills and community which I particularly like.

CocoPops the Canadian French Immersion system is wonderful. When we were stationed on a large NATO base in the Netherlands, we arrived not long after DD had started junior school in this country. She attended the international school with other British children, but the school was run by the Americans whose children did not start school until the age of 7. She was not stretched at all, so, along with a number of other children she was invited to join the Canadians in their French Immersion system. It was amazing. They spoke little or no English in class and at the end of three years she could speak and write French like a native. We came home to England and she went to the local junior school where they hadn’t begun to learn languages. I was so worried that she would lose the ability to converse that the school provided her every day with a teacher who would speak to her in French for an hour or so until we could find a private tutor to fill that gap. It reinforced what I had always thought - that we do not start teaching languages early enough in this country. From 7 to 11 children will soak it up like a sponge. Thereafter, especially with boys, all sorts of imponderables kick in and given the choice, they drop languages so it quite often goes down the drain.

Semi retired nursery teacher here. Social skills and speech more important than reading. However if the polish way is different they will of tracked this. I feel in nursery we’ve definitely moved backwards with speech and my opinion toileting. I can’t compare our teaching methods but the joy of reading needs to reinforced and introduced as a joy rather than a chore. I’m sure your grandchildren will be fine and their learning will be monitored as to their strengths.

I was a teacher of young children for many years and then swapped to university to teach trainee teachers early reading skills.
I would say well done Poland! Most children in England are reading when they are clearly not ready, from a range of repetitive books. In France they begin school much later and write beautifully and are ahead of England in many ways. Children should be playing creatively and taking part in pre- reading and writing skills.
And if your relative is unhappy what's to stop him teaching the child to read? Or reading lots of stories. What an advantage the child has with being bi-lingual and stretching the synapses of the brain.

I could read quite fluently at three, taught by my older sister. I’m no genius, I just loved letters and words and was desperate to learn, it’s just a shame that all children are different and can’t learn at their own pace which obviously would be impossible.

they could be taught to read from an early age by their parents

"I think that this is quite ironic in view of the fact that, once their maternity leave is over, mothers put their children into nurseries, some not even a year old... And the nurseries are supposed to provide meaningful developmental experiences for the children in their care. Entering a school at 5 is hardly a completely new experience for many children."

Other gender parents are also available. Can we please stop blaming mothers for everything to do with children?

I myself learned to read at 5, but my teaching has all been done in Denmark, where children are 6 or 7 when they start school.

The advantages of the later start are that most of the children in the class are ready and eager to learn and most do quite quickly learn to read, spell and do sums.

Kindergartens are not compulsory here, but run much along the lines you describe in Poland. So children come to school with social skills and good motorik - both much needed at school.

Once the children are reading, your son can encourage them to do so, and there is no reason why he should not read aloud to them.

Are they being brought up bilingual? If not, the parents should really consider doing so. It is far easier to learn two or three languages before the age of 12 than have to acquire them later.

My daughter runs a school in Cornwall, age 3 to 8. She first concentrates on their social skills and motor skills. They can operate pencils, cutlery etc and they build things and do much of their learning outdoors. There are stories and books and somehow they learn to read but not necessarily as young as 4. She goes more the Montessori/Froebel ways and the children can handle a lot of physical stuff prior to reading.

Our grandson hates books ( he's four). He used to love them when he was little but just stopped enjoying. His speech is amazing , it's like talking to an adult and school agree. He loves acting out stories when I use props. Eg-we make 3 little houses out of magnetic shapes and re-enact the 3 little pigs story. Some kids I guess are just late starters. I was always a follower of early reading but have maybe changed my opinion