The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

@smileless2012, I have given it a go...just because things worked out and my son came back does not mean I am not able to understand or have anything of value to offer...if the estrangement carried on and I came here offering ideas to try and help and an appeal to give personal insight a try, then would what I say hold value? Not likely.

I am on the other side of it! A success story, but that is slapped away and treated as if it burns your skin and insults you.

My apologies. I see I've nothing of value to offer here, because the idea of self reflection isn't welcome. Its all the NC adult child's fault in one way or another...gotcha.

may all those stuck in the throes of this, the NC children that may be reading along as well, find healing and peace somehow, for that alone is my intent in posting on this thread.

Smileless2012
I dont think you read my post properly.

I did not say that NC is the same as "just losing touch" in the literal sense.

I said that it is DESCRIBED as NC now, whereas in the past it was "hidden", but no less prevalent. And wasnt given a name.

Many people who "lost touch" didnt, they cut that side of the family off. It was no less common, its just TALKED about now, rather than hidden beind "lost touch" "moved for work" etc.

There were always "fuck you" letters. They were physical letters so often burnt without a trace. These days with emails and social media its much more public/apparent. But
A: its more public than in the past and
B: the language used is different, but the outcome is the same.

If you have so much votriole towards your childrens generation that you think theyre some separate species to previous generations and dont have the same emotions and motivations of any other humans ever....well...that might explain a thing or two!

How many of the 28 pages of this thread have you read Soontobe?

There have been posts on this thread and other threads on the subject of estrangement from posters who've shared their stories, who had no choice but to go NC, and have been supported by those estranged. Had you read more of this thread, you wouldn't have needed to ask your question; it's been answered.

Who has said that things don't and shouldn't change when your son marries GranfromDownunder? I haven't, and I haven't seen a post from any other GN that has said so.

CO your parents, your child's GP's, their GGP's isn't a change, it's a monumental and devastating course of action. I am not "stuck in the old way of thinking" unless of course the old way of thinking is that your relationship with your children changes as they grow, that it changes again when they marry, changes again when they have children of their own but they don't cut you out of their lives for good.

Perhaps those who have chosen NC with their parents and entire families are under presented here on GN. Perhaps that's because essentially this is a site for GP's Soontobe.

You post that much can be gained from walking in the shoes of another so maybe you should give it a go. You were estranged from your son and thankfully this is no longer the case. There are many for whom the estrangement carries on. Did your son have GC? Were you also estranged from them? If not try walking in the shoes of those of us who've lost our GC as well as our AC.

I know plenty of ladies who have been CO but I don't reiterate their tragic stories to try and make a point. Why do those who are not or are no longer estranged feel the need to justify their point of view by giving detailed accounts of some who have chosen estrangement?

Thank you Fairydoll. Knowing a posters back story is certainly better than making generalisations, as pointed out by Madgran.

Granfromdownunder Maybe you are stuck in the old way of thinking that the women should take care of every aspect of the home and men just go to work and then get doted on. Things have changed. My son needs to contribute to his family and home, and that includes taking responsibility for maintaining familial relationships.

I am not NC with either of my children! Your description of your relationship with your son is fine but you are very clearly not facing the issues that some NC parents are facing within their familial relationships. And your last statement is making some very massive assumptions, or at least gives that impression!

Granfrom downunder An accusation of brainwashing is a sign of a person unwilling to accept their own faults; unwilling to accept that maybe their child is not brainwashed at all, but has a rational mind and STILL chose not to be around them.

I think that is far too much of a generalisation!

Smileless

As you know (and I’ve said it many, many times on these threads), ‘There but for the grace of God....’

Had my son been swayed by all the accusations levelled at us by his partner, than I too - along with DH - would now be estranged from both him and our DGS. We had a perfectly good relationship with her up until after the baby came along. I never offered advice, never criticised (well, I didn’t need to as she and DS are great parents, very clued up and there would have been nothing that I could criticise!) but still she went NC. One of the things I have since learned is that she finds it difficult to accept another woman in her life apart from her mum, with whom she is very close. Although I can sort of understand that, that was no excuse for lying and being abusive. I also think she had PND, but that’s just my opinion.

Now, after three years she is in contact again, though I am very hesitant because I believe it could happen again and I couldn’t handle it (neither could DS I think!)

What my ramble is attempting to say, is that yes, of course there’s ‘reasons’ for going NC but, as in your case - which I’m very familiar with - it’s obvious it’s nothing you have done. As you’ve said yourself, the problem appears to lie with your DIL and ES has to go along with it, or face the alternative and he’s not strong enough to do that.

Quite simply, I could easily have been in your situation.

@GranfromDownUnder Beautiful post. Thank you for sharing.

Things SHOULD change when your son gets married. Before my oldest son was married he was in his 20s and still living at home, so I got to see him nearly every day. He'd text and call, check in and all that. Since being married it has gone from every day to seeing him once a week, sometimes once a month. He doesn't call me every day anymore, because he doesn't need me to be his "mom" anymore. We are both adults and our relationship is now a friendship. All to often on here I see grans who still want to feel needed as the "mom" role. But our sons are grown men.

And you know what? They also see her family more. Because my DIL is very close with her mother. As they say "a daughter is for life". She arranges get-togethers with her own family. It is my son's responsibility to arrange them with us, and men aren't very good about that. So I extend invitations a reasonable amount and accept when he is busy. I am retired so it's easy to feel like he is always busy since I am always free. But I remember what it was like when my boys were little. I won't resent him for it, and I most definitely aren't going to place blame on my DIL. Maybe you are stuck in the old way of thinking that the women should take care of every aspect of the home and men just go to work and then get doted on. Things have changed. My son needs to contribute to his family and home, and that includes taking responsibility for maintaining familial relationships.

@smileless2012
you said, "Well it's pretty obvious from some of the content of your posts Soontobegran that all empathy is not for the P's/GP's of estrangement."

that doesn't answer my question...is there any room to find it within the hearts here on this thread to feel empathy for those who feel like they've no choice but to go NC?

That I may speak up for a part of a group poorly, IMO misrepresented and misunderstood does not mean I have no empathy for those P/GP's whose voices here are the majority. (please remember that I too had a child estranged for us for a time, therefore I have lived this and know the horror of the loss felt here...it is terrifying, confusing and all encompassing...that being said;)

What good can be gained from allowing those big emotions to keep us from never trying to understand the other side? IMO, not much. On the other hand, MUCH can be learned when efforts are made to try to walk in the shoes of another, no matter how painful it may be. (there is MUCH I learned through my child's time "away" from the family...much of it humbling, but also powerful lessons that have bettered me as a person)

During this time, I met a woman who is NC with her family. The decision to go NC, she tells me was horrible for her, broke her heart in ways she says she can't find words for...but it became clear to her that her P's couldn't see her as quite human, always made her out to be an embarrassment to them, but their other children (one in particular) akin to the second coming of Christ. She almost killed herself over the heartbreak of never being "good enough" to be loved. The enmeshment with her parents who would never let her be an autonomous supported adult, was driving her mad...they went out of their way to say things to cause her to doubt herself and her ability to be successful in life (though, to outsiders, she is VERY successful!). I'm sure her parents feel that it was a normal, close, loving situation too, but she didn't. She wasn't allowed to be her own person. So, as a last resort, just so that she might not kill herself, she told me she felt she had no choice but to separated from them.

I have watched her walk it out...it was hard at first, but now she tells me that she is more mentally healthy than she has ever been...but she knows that matters less to her P's than their own needs and feelings and expectations of her, and though her mind is more healthy and she feels free...her heart will remain broken every day of her life, but she says broken hearts still beat and so its worth it.

Our ES didn't have a problem with any of our behaviours before he went NC GranfromDownUnder. The reason for our estrangement is the woman he married.

You can't have a discussion to find out what problems there maybe if one side refuses to talk.

An accusation of brainwashing is not "a sign of a person unwilling to accept their own faults". Brainwashing exists, it happens.

The EP's and GP's here on GN accept that there are some cases where estrangement is the only course of action for AC. It's a shame that there aren't more who also accept that it can happen through no fault of the P/GP. Or that NC can be metered out for no real reason.

We had a great relationship with our ES for 27 years and still do with our other son. We care about their success and happiness as a family apart from ourselves. We never expected either of their worlds to revolve around us. It didn't stop us from being CO though.

Interesting that you post that your not saying any of the EP's on GN are as extreme as the examples you gave, but you gave them any way.

"Best ever last sentence*Granfromdownunder" now why doesn't that surprise me Norah.

Best ever last sentence Granfromdownunder.

What behaviors did your children have a problem with before going NC?

NC has always been a thing, y'all just didn't realize it. My brother became NC with my parents once he turned 18, and for good reason. None of us have heard from him in decades. I looked at some NC pages too. And they involve a grandma who purposefully gave her grandchild peanut butter because she thought peanut allergies were just a myth and almost killed her own grandchild. Another tracked down her runaway daughter and eventually tried to burn her house down.

I'm not saying anyone here is to that extreme, but maybe examine your own behavior. This doesn't happen for no reason. If you think you haven't done anything wrong, you have. And if you're posting here, then your kids are probably NC because you refuse to admit you're wrong and change.

I have great relationships with both my sons and their wives. I care about their happiness and success as a family, apart from me. My world doesn't revolve around them. And if I was causing them stress and unnecessary headache, I'd want to know and discuss a resolution. I'm open to it. I have great faith in this young generation. They are doing many great things. I won't judge them and say things like "they're brainwashed". An accusation of brainwashing is a sign of a person unwilling to accept their own faults; unwilling to accept that maybe their child is not brainwashed at all, but has a rational mind and STILL chose not to be around them.

I think years ago people "lost touch". Just as many became NC, for the same reasons to now. I do not think NC to be a bad thing if it preserves the sanity and marriage to NC people.

That must have been extremely difficult for your DGM GrandmaMoira. Did she eventually hear from her D and did they reconnect?

It's more 'common' now as mental health is spoke about more and more. Mental abuse is a thing as is emotional.
Abuse isn't just physical and that doesn't just apply to spouse relationships. Parents can mentally and emotionally abuse you. I'm married to proof.

People are going to doctors now about their mental health as it's so normal. Suicide is the biggest killer in men under 40 now which is scary. They are encouraged to talk. Therapy is available on the NHS. You go and with anti depressents you're asked if you'd like counselling. They dig. Ask questions. As their client they do what's best for them.

Everything is changing. My DHs dad killed himself when DH was a child so his dad fitted perfectly into todays statistic. Which is absolutely terrifying.

In my experience on here as the DIL of a man who's 'cut off' his DM, it's not him who gets the brunt end of it, it's me. I've been called the DIL from hell, I've been lied about and had my side stretched so far it's turned into a completely different story. I was told by a poster that because I am a DIL she would never agree with me on anything even knowing my MIL lied about having Cancer.

My MIL would tell people she is heartbroken, they have a really good relationship, it was all fine untill I came along..

She has emotionally and mentally abused that man. Belittled him and treated him like a puppet. What ment by 'it was all fine untill SHE (me) came along' was She always got her own way. She didn't just turn into a nightmare when I graced the scene.
What changed was my DHs priorities as a few months down the line I fell pregnant.

She had the control she always had with him untill it started effecting him and he couldn't keep up with her schedule, working fulltime, and being a dad.
He tried talking to her but it turned into dramatics. 'You're stopping me seeing my grandchild, I knew she hated me, you've broke my heart, I am your mother and so on' you couldn't have a normal conversation with her.

Long story.
He ended up in counselling then I was asked to join. It all came out. Everything. Childhood, control, blackmail.

The counseller recommended writing a letter or email. So he could have time, write everything he wanted down as talking wasn't working. You can't pick a fight with a letter, plus he was scared of her reaction.
We was told 'You can't change a person's behaviour but how you react to it.' And that's what happened.

No letter was sent.
Months went on. It well and truly exploded when I was in labour with DD2 and it was the final nail in the coffin. Instead of a letter he sent an email. Stating everything that had been a problem.

But no. It was now my fault and thats what she tells people. She tells people about the silly argument (not silly) that was had before hand but not what it was about.
It's easier to say to people when they ask ' My DIL hates me' instead of 'I've been abit of a shit' she would then have to explain and make herself look bad.

I've seen that man have a panic attack just seeing 'mom' flash on the screen of a phone. He's lost sleep. He's been to counselling. He's been on anti depressents. He's read books recommended on how to handle behaviour. He's tried to meet in the middle with her. He's talked to her. He's cried. He's had emails, paragraph after paragraph about how much of a bastard he is (her words).
She did that. Not me.

She doesn't have an ounce of my sympathy. My husband has it all. She must be hurting, she's human after all but her hurt doesn't erase his. Her hurt isn't the most important.

I totally agree with Smileless, it was not common in the past for NC letters to be sent, nor of course information to be found advising various 'psychological' solutions. It was not available therefore people talked their problems over.
Genealogy is not the same, I have a family tree & was adopted as an 8 week old baby so I know scandals/ fall outs in families happen, but not with a gut punch letter from your D/S saying NC with no explanation other than they can.
So saying if it is the D/S wish so be it, but it is a horrible thing to happen and I would not wish it upon anyone.

I agree with Notanan2 that in the past people used marriage or work etc. to cut themselves from family. My DM joined the forces in WW11 and did not contact her mother at all once discharged. She moved away and had no contact for over 10 years. It was a more subtle way of cutting off than the modern one Smileless suffered but my DGM must have wondered if her daughter was dead or alive.

As a professional I find the sites you mention very dangerous, Smileless. A lot of unqualified people who have obviously read a few books, picked up the ”jargon” which they then throw around in a pseudo knowledgeable way, making it fit the various scenarios that people describe.

Psychology is not an exact science, and every case is different. Working through their issues with an experienced, totally neutral counsellor in a safe environment, will enable them to reach a point where the right decision can be made. If after following the process it leads the client to believe that cutting someone out of their lives is the only way forward, they at least have a measure of peace to enable them to live their lives free of guilt. I find it telling that so many who have estranged themselves still find it necessary to keep repeating the ”party manifesto” Even more telling is the vitriol still shown to those who have been estranged. The way that they spend so much time ”recruiting” others to join them. Someone who truly is at peace with themselves will be quietly enjoying that peace.

No notanan NC is not "the new 'oh they moved up/down country and we lost touch". NC is when you get a note from your son on Christmas Eve telling you you are no longer a part of his and his child's life and are to stay away.

NC is when you've lost your child because s/he no longer wants anything to to with you. NC is having GC growing up, for a 4 year period for us, just 15 doors down the road, and you're not allowed anywhere near them.

NC is a living bereavement as you struggle to grieve the loss of a child still living.

NC is what it's called because NC is what it is and the number of online sites that tell AC how to go non contact with their parents and in many instances their entire family, it testament that it's more prevalent now then ever before.

Many times when people use geniology websites they find a whole family of cousins/second cousins who live in their home town/county, despite them previously believing that that whole side of the family up sticks and lost contact due to distance years ago...

NC is nowt new.

The acronyms are, but that's it!

NC is the new "oh they moved up/down country and we lost touch"

I am making an assumption here:

Those of you who think NC is some new internet age "trend" have not done much geniology?

My mother's side includes several dead ends, one of which we are fairly certain to be due a "new life" & fake name situation.

There is an elopement on my husbands side which renders a great grandmother's family untracable as there was no contact or mention of her family from before the marraige. Even her exact home town from before the marraige was never discussed. It was a "no go" subject apparently.

There are relatives who moved abroad and didnt keep in touch.

The difference between NC now and then is nothing more than a change in how it is described.

Sure, many people emigrated, joined the clergy/missions/merchant navy, went "into service" or moved for marraige away from family that the loved and missed and wrote to and remembered.

But for many others it was a way to escape their families, because back then, in order to get away you had to take drastic measures like "marrying out".

It was more "respectable" back then. "Gone to America" sounds better than "doesnt speak to me any more". But now that excuse/cover doesnt work due to technology/skype. So NC is called what it is.

But I dont buy that it's more prevalent.

I can certainly find some definite evidence in my own family tree, and several possible NC situations. And not just on my tree either, I helped DH research his too and found similar patterns (things like adult children still alive at time of parents death but not mentioned in death notice/obituary! eg "loving wife and mother to X & Y" but had another child: Z, who did not die until later.

Have a think if you've done some geniology and see if it offers a possible explaination for a dead end or irregularity?

agree with Smileless, estrangement appears to be different in each case. Much the same as one pension scheme is different to the other.

Well it's pretty obvious from some of the content of your posts Soontobegran that all empathy is not for the P's/GP's of estrangement.

You dealt with your estrangement from your son your way and I'm pleased that you've been reconciled. Others deal with their estrangements differently. You post from your personal experience and I post from mine.

Our ES didn't climb "impossible hills for the whole of (his) life". For 27 years we had a close, loving and mutually respectful relationship. Things only changed when he married.