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Estrangement

The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

(1001 Posts)
nina1959 Wed 08-Mar-17 08:31:00

I hope it's OK to post this here. I'm sure Gransnet will move it if it's not but in view of all those estranged, cut off parents unable to understand why their adult children treat them like they do, this very well written post sums it up perfectly.
It was sent to me this morning. Obviously some AC have no choice but to keep their distance from abusive parents, we understand this. But this NC approach being liberally recommended is a highly destructive trend ruining many lives.

' I am in the position that my estranged daughter is treating me like I'm toxic when I feel it's the other way around. We've been studying this for awhile now. Why are there so many adult children cutting off their families. These are things that we came up with. Something interesting: we've all noticed how our EC all do the same mean stuff and say the same mean things. It's like they're reading a script or like they all joined the same cult.
I have news for you. They are all reading a script. They did join the same cult.
What they are doing is called "Going No Contact". It's literally a scripted plan that they follow. It starts when they judge us as not just humans with whom they disagree, but "evil" because we don't see things their way. They complain online, and meet other complaining children who honestly believe, thanks to the self-esteem movement, that any time they were uncomfortable for a moment equals abuse. If their parents disagreed with them or made them do something that they didn't like or whacked their fresh asses when they talked back or refused to follow rules, they add this to their pile of justification. Lacking coping skills, they believe that anytime they are not happy, they have been wronged, and the person who dared to 'make' them feel bad is a Narcissist.
A Narcissist to them is what 'possessed' meant to our parents. The Narcissist is pure evil and a force to be feared and hated. They all bolster one another's justification of their interpretation of who we are. They swap war stories that are positively ridiculous, such as stories of the "evil narcissistic mother in law who wore a different dress than agreed upon to the wedding" or the "evil, narcissistic mother who took away all of their toys until their chores were done". I've seen both of those in these groups.
After justifying to themselves that they are RIGHT and their parents are EVIL NARCISSISTS, they begin plans to "Go No Contact". It is a systematic plan to discard the parents/grandparent, and turn the kids against grandparents. There are actual steps to this plan. They vary from group to group, but they are essentially all similar.
The groups talk a lot about setting boundaries, but what they call setting boundaries is just rude dictating, and setting their targets up to fail. Stuff like "I told my mother that she can come over between 12 and 1 on Sundays only. If she is one minute early or stays one minute late, that will be the end of her visits." Part of the plan is to NOT tell mother what she did wrong, just to enact the "consequence". They know that the targeted parent will try to rectify the situation. They react in a way that is illogical: refusing to answer questions, insisting that any apology is a manipulative lie and therefore is insincere, ordering parent out of their house, putting parents in that time out thing where they tell us not to contact them for a certain length of time, and then they will "review our request".
They post joyful stories of their parents reaction to losing grandkids or their parents pleas for an explanation. They cheer each other on and congratulate one another for cutting family off. Refusing to give any explanation is part of the plan. They call it Taking Your Power Back.
They claim that it's to protect themselves from the evil narcissists who are terrorizing them, but in reality, it's not about protection or healing. It's about power, control, and just being shitty. They don't know the difference between assertive and aggressive, and they think being arbitrary is the same as having boundaries.
Google "Going No Contact". You will find pages and pages of groups and instructions that will not surprisingly match exactly what our kids are doing.
I think this information can be very helpful. We can learn what they want us to do, so we can do the opposite.
I strongly urge every single person here to read up on "Going No Contact". It's like a map to navigate this territory. It even gets amusing sometimes, reading the steps and thinking "You're such a lemming". Who the hell would follow this crap.
They would, that's who'

Smileless2012 Wed 10-Jan-18 09:25:42

That's a very apt quote Yogagirlsmile. I understand what you're saying and it's very sad that if any of us were to ever reconcile, there'd be a black cloud hanging over us for the rest of our lives, and for them to.

I think if our estranged children were capable of remorse Celeb it would be for everything they've done and said to us. No doubt they'd blame us for their decision to take away our GC the same way they blame us for everything else.

Sometimes our DS forgets. He didn't send Mr. S. a father's day card this year and of course he was upset but it was just one of those things. I wonder why with some AC, their parents can be understanding and forgiving and the AC can't return the sentiment. Perhaps as it says in Yogagirl's quote we've created "a negative temperament no matter how ardently and honourably we nurture our children".

IngeJones Wed 10-Jan-18 09:51:54

Some of these spoilt AC snowflakes should read this www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5252783/Thrown-Away-Child-charts-Louise-Allen-horrific-childhood.html

Now that's a woman who can live and die proud of herself. The NC ACs are just cowardly running away.

Smileless2012 Wed 10-Jan-18 10:15:27

Yes, IngeJones if a woman can find love in heart to be there for a woman who treated her so cruelly and wasn't even her biological mother, it just shows what nasty, cruel and selfish people these AC whose parents always did their best for them, are.

"spoilt AC snowflakes"grin.

celebgran Wed 10-Jan-18 10:58:10

I like it spoilt ac snowflakes!

Yes yogagirl your s inlaw sounds like mine he was more supportive than my ed at my beloved f inlaw funeral she took hump for some reason as she was prone to.
I remember thanking him for coming over Day her grandad died and he hugged me and said why would t we?

Yet all while he was plotting this cut off as apparently he spoke to my sons partner at time asking her Opinion of me?
Mmmmm very 2 faced,

Still not good keep analysing it all.
Very good quote yogagirl.

Naturally smilless it would be all my fault If my ed ever has any remorse.

Must get off here and start doing some cleaning ugh!

Fairydoll2030 Wed 10-Jan-18 13:47:40

A random thought.....

Some AC have had poor upbringings, neglect, physical and/or verbal abuse, even abandonment and yet they do not cut off their parents.

Other AC have had good parenting, plenty of love and attention and have wanted for nothing but they still cut off their parents.

There is simply no logic to it and those who say there is a always a rational explanation to NC are wrong.

It can happen to anyone.

celebgran Wed 10-Jan-18 15:03:41

That's very true fairydoll.

I guess sometimes it's stubbornness and pride, I would imagine my daughter must be ashamed of how she had behaved towards loving parents ?

Who knows as smilless says it's bound to be our fault.

I think children poorly treated normally crave love from their parents however bad they are it's weird really

Yet if you give you child all you have to give they cut you off!

MissAdventure Wed 10-Jan-18 15:13:18

Do you think its maybe in part due to giving too much (whatever too much is) to your children? I'm not suggesting it is, just pondering.

bugsy555 Wed 10-Jan-18 15:21:41

Wow some of you are so very bitter. If this was the attitude you had at the time of CO then I can really understand why -or maybe the bitterness has come later, either was I don't believe it has helped your situationd. Do you ever wonder why the estrangement has lasted so long and evaluate your own attitudes towards your children and their families?. Maybe if you did then this situation might not have gone on for so long. I know that some of you have tried to communicate with with your A.C. recently by sending cards or whatever but why do you do that if you could 'never forgive them' or believe their partners (and/or they) are 'toxic'. I find it difficult to comprehend how a parent can switch off their feelings for their adult children (and their families) no matter how much hurt has been caused. In your situation I would accept that everybody has played a part and do everything I could to keep my heart and door open to them. I find your situation so very sad and life really is too short.

Fairydoll2030 Wed 10-Jan-18 15:33:54

bugsy. For an apparently intelligent woman, you talk a load of ill-informed unadulterated nonsense. Can’t be bothered to refute your post in detail.

Just bear in mind ..... There But For The Grace Of God, Go I.

For the record, I am not estranged from my AC. You will not find ‘bitterness’ in my posts.

We have also been down this road before - I remember you from way back on these threads.

Fairydoll2030 Wed 10-Jan-18 15:59:59

In your situation I would etc etc

How do you know what you would do bugsy?

None of us know, so none of us can predict.

Until it happens t you, God forbid, you can only give us (as Oscar Wilde would say) ‘the benefit of your inexperience.’

celebgran Wed 10-Jan-18 17:21:36

Well said fairy doll.

Bugsby no one is showing bitterness?
We all love our estranged children.
However if you are betrayed in worst possible way by someone you gave birth to how could you ever trust them again ?
Something's like using my depression as a reason I would be unsafe to see my Grandaughter and bringing up things I told her in confidence before she was born (stupid of me but we were v close) and getting me arrested for delivering 1st birthday gift to my adored Gra daughter would be very hard to forget (impossible )but I try to forgive her for my own sanity.

What kind of daughter would do that to her mum?
123 flump is entirely different situation she took her children to see their grandmother even tho she behaved badly and tried to help her I believe even tho her son had to cut her off periodically due to her abuse,
Sorry if got that wrong 123 flump.

123flump Wed 10-Jan-18 17:22:39

I don't think it is fair to say you don't know what you would do, I agree with bugsy that I don't understand people saying they wouldn't want them back or they don't want to know about them. It would kill me not to know they were OK and I know I would want my other children or family members to keep in touch with them so that I could hear they were all doing OK.

I guess we all have different priorities.

123flump Wed 10-Jan-18 17:25:20

No Yoga you got it right. I think sometimes the SIL or DIL can be less upset about things as they don't have the emotional baggage. Because of history my husband could get upset about little things, they wouldn't trigger me as I didn't have the same history.

celebgran Wed 10-Jan-18 17:26:54

Sometimes 123 flump It hurts very much to hear information 2nd hand and in my case I make no secret I would give anything to talk to my daughter and give her a hug even though she has hurt me more than I could ever say.
However sometimes as smilless say it would be too painful for her and some others to risk going through that hurt again.

We are all different and handle it differently.

MissAdventure Wed 10-Jan-18 17:28:18

Nobody does know what they would do though. And they certainly can't know what another person would do. There are all sorts of factors to take into account which are individual to each person.

bugsy555 Wed 10-Jan-18 17:47:28

I'm certain that I would still want to hear about/see any estranged A.C. regardless of any hurt they've caused. Celeb I'll keep saying it.. your one of the few cut off parents on here that I feel genuinely aggrieved for as you seem so regretful/reflectful and willing to see things 'from the other side'. You know you'd jump at the chance to see your daughter again because your a normal parent that I feel has been treated badly. But still, most parents wouldn't make the choice to sever ties regardless. Some of the others are reaching out to their A.C. but making it impossible for those children to accept the olive branch. I find that unthinkable

MissAdventure Wed 10-Jan-18 17:50:35

Estranged parents haven't made the choice to sever all ties. That has already been done for them. Its a well known fact that you can't change anybodys behaviour; only the way you react to it.

MissAdventure Wed 10-Jan-18 17:56:16

So, estranged parents are wrong to reach out to their children, as that is overbearing, and wrong to accept that their children don't want to see them?

IngeJones Wed 10-Jan-18 18:19:55

I have been doing some thinking. I know why my ds went nc, it was because after years of treating him with understanding, sympathy, and loads of money I finally snapped and said "why don't you try treating people as you'd like to be treated yourself" when he was moaning about something relevant to the comment. And after he stopped speaking to me, I had to think "how is this different to how it ever was?" as I remembered years of texting him "happy birthday/xmas/new year" etc and never getting a reply. I used to hear from him about twice a year when he was pleasant enough to me for the ten minutes he could spare (and used 5 mins of that time instructing me which bank account to pay into). I don't know if there would be any point him talking to me now, I am still too bitter - the word Bugsby used. You see when he was a teen and when he was 20 something I kept thinking to keep things nice and he'd grow up one day and start caring about people. But then suddenly he was in his 40s and everything was still the same.

123flump Wed 10-Jan-18 18:20:48

I don't think anyone can say what another person would do or should do. I do think we can say what we would do and as much as I wouldn't tell someone what to think or do I don't think anyone can tell me what I would do.

MissAdventure I would let my child know I would always be there for them, if they asked me to stay away I would respect that and hope that things would change. We can only do what we think is right for us and them.

Celebgran I can see that 2nd hand information would be bitter sweet, we all have our own personality to deal with, for me I would prefer some news to no news and obviously for you it is slightly different. We aren't all the same, we have our own personality and our own history. For me I couldn't cut someone out, hence staying in touch with my MIL even though it was difficult but I would never criticize my husband for making a different decision at times as he had to look after his mental health.

It would be great if all families could come through this and be reunited but I understand that wouldn't be right for everyone.

MargaretX Wed 10-Jan-18 18:21:29

If your children don’t want to see you they obviously don't love you. That is the only hold you have over your children if they respect you and love you and don't want to hurt you.

There was father upset he didn't get a card on Father's day. what rubbish. Father's day is just a way of making money and to ignore it shows common sense. Father should behave more grown up than getting upset because of card which did not arrive.
When I observe how many parents give their children everything, instead of holding back and letting the children learn a few basic facts about real life.
That you can't alsways do as you want or get everything you want. Keep them short of money so they can learn how to manage on less.
Many children are spoilt to death and I wonder if these are the ones not wanting contact.

IngeJones Wed 10-Jan-18 18:22:32

Oh and if anyone is wondering why I texted greetings instead of visiting or sending card it's cos as a rule he has always refused to give me his address. And he has never picked up the phone on a voice call.

IngeJones Wed 10-Jan-18 18:29:06

MargaretX, yes I think mine was a "spoilt to death" and if I tried to limit what I gave him so that he'd have to make an effort for himself where was always some interfering grandparent giving it to him instead. One of them is still alive and he still goes round there regularly to collect payday.

IngeJones Wed 10-Jan-18 18:39:51

Don't get me wrong, I'd be distraught if anything happened to him, and I like to hear he's been seen by people and that he seemed ok, to put my mind at rest. Being a mother is a very emotionally complicated business smile

MissAdventure Wed 10-Jan-18 18:46:06

I think continuing to try and make your child want to see you must be like smashing your head on a brick wall, in that its a relief when you stop.
It must be very, very difficult to bear.

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