One thing’s for sure, it took a lot of soul searching, trying to get thru to my mother and years of therapy before I went No Contact
It’s not a cult. No one brainwashed me and I followed no script. AFTER I went No Contact I found out my mother HAD been diagnosed as Narcissistic. It didn’t surprise me as she couldn’t self reflect and only stayed in therapy long enough to hammer the therapist about her entitlement to do and the therapist to make many failed attempts at explaining empathy to her (as I learned later)
I’d put up with years of twisted lies to or about me, attempts to control my life, attempts to marry me off, and some very bizarre behaviors.
My own Grandmother told me she had to cut off members of her own family over the years for similar behavior
Granted sometimes it’s the children but just being Gran or Mom isn’t a rubber stamp to do whatever you please. Respect is a two way street.
Gransnet forums
Estrangement
The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact
(1001 Posts)I hope it's OK to post this here. I'm sure Gransnet will move it if it's not but in view of all those estranged, cut off parents unable to understand why their adult children treat them like they do, this very well written post sums it up perfectly.
It was sent to me this morning. Obviously some AC have no choice but to keep their distance from abusive parents, we understand this. But this NC approach being liberally recommended is a highly destructive trend ruining many lives.
' I am in the position that my estranged daughter is treating me like I'm toxic when I feel it's the other way around. We've been studying this for awhile now. Why are there so many adult children cutting off their families. These are things that we came up with. Something interesting: we've all noticed how our EC all do the same mean stuff and say the same mean things. It's like they're reading a script or like they all joined the same cult.
I have news for you. They are all reading a script. They did join the same cult.
What they are doing is called "Going No Contact". It's literally a scripted plan that they follow. It starts when they judge us as not just humans with whom they disagree, but "evil" because we don't see things their way. They complain online, and meet other complaining children who honestly believe, thanks to the self-esteem movement, that any time they were uncomfortable for a moment equals abuse. If their parents disagreed with them or made them do something that they didn't like or whacked their fresh asses when they talked back or refused to follow rules, they add this to their pile of justification. Lacking coping skills, they believe that anytime they are not happy, they have been wronged, and the person who dared to 'make' them feel bad is a Narcissist.
A Narcissist to them is what 'possessed' meant to our parents. The Narcissist is pure evil and a force to be feared and hated. They all bolster one another's justification of their interpretation of who we are. They swap war stories that are positively ridiculous, such as stories of the "evil narcissistic mother in law who wore a different dress than agreed upon to the wedding" or the "evil, narcissistic mother who took away all of their toys until their chores were done". I've seen both of those in these groups.
After justifying to themselves that they are RIGHT and their parents are EVIL NARCISSISTS, they begin plans to "Go No Contact". It is a systematic plan to discard the parents/grandparent, and turn the kids against grandparents. There are actual steps to this plan. They vary from group to group, but they are essentially all similar.
The groups talk a lot about setting boundaries, but what they call setting boundaries is just rude dictating, and setting their targets up to fail. Stuff like "I told my mother that she can come over between 12 and 1 on Sundays only. If she is one minute early or stays one minute late, that will be the end of her visits." Part of the plan is to NOT tell mother what she did wrong, just to enact the "consequence". They know that the targeted parent will try to rectify the situation. They react in a way that is illogical: refusing to answer questions, insisting that any apology is a manipulative lie and therefore is insincere, ordering parent out of their house, putting parents in that time out thing where they tell us not to contact them for a certain length of time, and then they will "review our request".
They post joyful stories of their parents reaction to losing grandkids or their parents pleas for an explanation. They cheer each other on and congratulate one another for cutting family off. Refusing to give any explanation is part of the plan. They call it Taking Your Power Back.
They claim that it's to protect themselves from the evil narcissists who are terrorizing them, but in reality, it's not about protection or healing. It's about power, control, and just being shitty. They don't know the difference between assertive and aggressive, and they think being arbitrary is the same as having boundaries.
Google "Going No Contact". You will find pages and pages of groups and instructions that will not surprisingly match exactly what our kids are doing.
I think this information can be very helpful. We can learn what they want us to do, so we can do the opposite.
I strongly urge every single person here to read up on "Going No Contact". It's like a map to navigate this territory. It even gets amusing sometimes, reading the steps and thinking "You're such a lemming". Who the hell would follow this crap.
They would, that's who'
I agree MumOfTwins "just being Gran or Mom isn't a rubber stamp to do whatever you please" and being an adult child doesn't carry that rubber stamp either.
Mumoftwins. One sentence says all there is to say about your attitude. The one ending in "you refused to rug sweep" what a term. Your family are still all together, it's you that isn't. They are all wrong and just you are right. One day your twins will be adult and let's hope they take after you, I wonder how you will feel then.
Luckylegs
Refusing to rugsweep simply means she isn't willing to play happy families when she knows there's a problem.
Did you not read the part where her mum is diagnosed as being narcissistic? I'm not surprised she is NC with her mum.
As for the rest of them, unfortunately there are people who think "family is everything", and there are also people who don't or can't recognize that relatives are toxic. To admit that a parent is toxic is to admit that one's childhood was never really safe. That's admitting that one of your most fundamental needs wasn't met. That's a major challenge to a person's mental health.
As an example, BIL thinks FIL is wonderful. Hardly surprising, given that BIL was the favourite son. His wife can't stand FIL. Hubby can't stand FIL. Neither can I. Are you seeing a pattern here?
Luckylegs9
My twins are adults. I respect them. They’ve seen for themselves what’s going on in the family. They made independent decisions to be No Contact with certain family members
I’m not going to rugsweep and excuse abusive behavior from anyone. Family or not. I’m not holding grudges. In fact I feel nothing towards those family members
I listen to my kids when they set boundaries and respect them. I’m not all right. I’m just me. And I don’t like being abused or shamed or controlled. It was my family who behaved in “agree with us 100% or else manners.” They tried to do it to my children and my kids cut them off ON THEIR OWN.
You’re making some sweeping assumptions here. Which tells me a lot about you.
Thank you agnurse. Yes my childhood wasn’t safe. Or Happy. I tried but toxic is just that. Toxic.
I hope my kids continue to take after THEMSELVES. They’re wonderful people.
Agnes's and mumoftwins, if that's your take on life, fine. Just not mine.
Just to clarify........when you say "diagnosed as being narcissistic ", are you say narcissism is a medical condition. Never heard such a thing.....this must be something stateside.
Here, I doubt any doctor uses the term "narcissistic " as a diagnosis. Maybe a psychiatrist would. I don't know.
Smileless2012
I totally agree. I never implied that it did
Crazy H
The diagnosis came from a psychiatrist. Narcissistic Personality Disorder with comorbid Histrionic Personality Disorder
These are outlined in the DSM V as Cluster B, Axis II Personality Disorders
Luckylegs9
That’s my therapists and my take on my situation. I wouldn’t suppose to judge life for anyone else
What she's referring to is a personality disorder. There are 3 main clusters: odd/eccentric (paranoid, schizoid, and schizotypical personalities), dramatic/emotional (borderline, narcissistic, histrionic, and antisocial personalities), and fearful/anxious (dependent, avoidant, and obsessive/compulsive personalities - the last is separate and distinct from OCD). It's not surprising that Mumoftwins's mum was diagnosed with features of histrionic PD as well; there tends to be a lot of overlap between these disorders, especially in the cluster B (dramatic/emotional) category.
Very interesting and thankyou agnurse.
MofT....The fact that you can quote your mothers 'diagnosis' strikes me as very spurious.
For one, talk to any psychiatrist and its very difficult to diagnose.
Then there's the more important imv, 'fact' that a psychiatrist or therapist would have had to BREAK their professional code of conduct to discuss a patient with another?
How on earth did you come by such private information?
If it was through supposition or tittle tattle from a 3rd party, how can it be considered reliable?
This alone makes me disbelieve the validity of your post.
Which leads me to think you are making reasons for your behaviour of NC. Reasons that suit your agenda. Such as 'child hogging'!!?
You may well have good reason to drop contact with her for all I know, but what you have said here does not qualify as such.
Having a difficult parent myself I speak with some understanding of gaslighting, triangulation and just plain cruelty.
By difficult I mean horrendously callous.
Never the less, I still find the original op's post for the most part true.
It's all too easy to fall in line with a fashionable idea, and to hand over all our responsibility's for our behaviour, and justifying them with a 'label' to show the world, and where does that lead?
Loveheals.....What you have described in your post is very similar to my experience.
Your eloquence and empathy shine out, and I'd like to Thank you for bothering to share your situation.
In its own way it has added more insight to the thread than any of the other finger wagging self proclaimed 'experts' will ever do!
Considering the tone of your rhetoric I’m not surprised you find mine spurious. I found out because it was in paperwork in her home found when she passed away.
Have you ever read any groups where posters agonize over No Contact like reddit’s ‘JustNoMIL’?
Shared DNA doesn’t give anyone the right to behave badly. Children grow up and become adults. Respect is a two way street
Frankly I found the OPs comments about No Contact being a cult or people following scripts to be ridiculous. I’ve spoken to a number of ACs who agonize for years, try having conversations with their parents and even go to counseling together. The pain both sides go thru is horrible. It’s not a light decision
But to dismiss it out of hand because YOU are the parent and should be given carte Blanche? I will never agree. Say what you like about me. I stick by my choices
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
MumofT you perhaps should have had in your mind the quote of Socrates when you made your first post on this thread on 30.12. @ 7.39.
Your second paragraph which began with "I haven't seen to many here acknowledge THEIR behaviour" IMO was dismissing out of hand the posts from estranged parents who have seen their once close and loving relationships with their AC destroyed.
Perhaps losing the debate when you'd only just entered into it.
The OP has spent years researching this subject and has had her research published on more than one occasion. My experience and the experience of others on this thread is not the same as yours but that doesn't make those experiences any less valuable, and as many experiences shared here are in line with the OP, that in itself should be sufficient to validate the OP's comments.
All of us I'm sure agree that "shared DNA doesn't give anyone the right to behave badly" whether it's the parent or the AC whose doing so.
Some AC have no choice but to go no contact due to abusive parenting, others do so because they allow themselves to be influenced by their partners and/or other family members.
The subject of this thread is the brainwashing behind going non contact. It exists. It's not always the case but the fact that it does happen should not be dismissed out of hand.
Tapping out
I can see why some of your ACs went NC. The weaponizing of personal thoughts, the inability for self reflection and sanctimony is unreal
May the New Year bring you all you deserve
A very cruel and un necessary post MumofT. You have merely summed up yourself with your post which I'm pleased to see will be your last.
Perhaps you've given more insight into your own situation than you intended.
You soon get the measure of an attitude or trait on here, when alternative views are expressed.
I cannot understand why AC go NC from parents who clearly show care and understanding in everything they post. It justs comes naturally to them.
I guess that is why NC hurts so much. If we were so thoughtless and selfish as is sometimes implied, surely we wouldn't give a damn.
Smileless2012
Thank you for giving me a chuckle this last day of 2018. I learned a lot but nothing about myself I wasn’t already aware of.
Nice try though
Smileless please ignore MumOfT in much the same way that I now ignore agnurse. What they have to say is of no consequence.
Oh and Happy New Year 
MofT...Well you haven't stood by your choices have you? No contact changed to plenty of contact (at least with her belongings}! When it suited. Then you had the gall to read her private papers.
In comparison, my choice will be to hire a house clearance firm to deal with my parents estate should I end up the one to handle everything.
Specifically so as I don't find any unsettling diaries or papers. My parents wont be able to answer for themselves, so what I cant sort out in life, I've made a decision to let go of in death. Don't want to fester for ever.
BTW never heard of any self respecting therapist who would actually call a client a narcissist outright. Knowing as they should, how devastating this would be to hear/read.
I think what appears so offensive to many on this site is the evangelical way you seem to have for spreading your POV.
And I wonder why would you cast your pearls among swine?
Ah! I see you've decided to leave........graciously!
Agnurse...The truth of MofT's mothers diagnosis cannot be verified. So its pointless hammering on about it.
1. MofT's mother was dead when MofT read her papers. Maybe MofT couldn't afford to pay someone to go through her mother's belongings. Maybe there was no one else to do it. Maybe it was healing for her to do it. You can't cast aspersions on her reasons for going through her parents' things. If there was something her mother didn't want anyone to read, she could have destroyed it before her death.
2. Narcissistic personality disorder is a genuine medical condition. It's not a slur used in that sense. People are diagnosed with PD's all the time and are made aware of their diagnosis. It would be no different than telling someone they had depression or bipolar. Why would the therapist not tell her patient that the patient has a medical condition? You can look up narcissistic PD in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. It's listed in there.
agnurse, your wrong...Happy New Year
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