The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

My daughter (an only child) went 'no contact' with me at my younger brother's funeral in November 2017. It came out of the blue. I thought our relationship was good and everything between us was fine when, 4 weeks prior to my brother's death, upon my daughter's plea for help, I drove 148 miles to babysit my granddaughter whilst my daughter was giving a presentation in London. I also prepared an evening meal for daughter, son in law and granddaughter. It was and is devastating, I seem to be trying to deal with 2 bereavements. I had no idea she disliked me so much. The pain my daughter has caused is huge and my sympathy and best wishes go out to all parents who are suffering in this way.

AFAIK reporting is anonymous. For all she would know it could have been the school or a neighbour who made the complaint.

Thankyou Luckylegs9 xx

@agnurse
If she was reported, I’d the person or agency allowed to tell
her or anyone else that it’s me doing the reporting?
And how easy is it to prove that there is real neglect?

The house they live in is (IMO) is a sign within itself.
It’s very filthy and there’s leaks in the roof and large amounts of mold in the bathroom.
She’s close to being a hoarder, but it’s one of those large scale, 3 story turn of the century homes and it’s more easy for the stuff to be spread amongst the various rooms.

I do know that any agent could see the condition of the home and perhaps make a safe assumption that the other things reported are true.

I just know that at times Social services overlooks blaringly obvious neglect.

I don't know what cot means Rainsong but I am sorry you are on your own. Have you other children? If not and you are estranged from your daughter and family after parting from a controlling husband in which you say you and your daughter had a terrible time, you just have yo give her space, she had enough of controlling with her father, I daresay her husband was asked to ring you. Can you just build up your confidence and a social life doing things you enjoy. I would still sent cards, but perhaps it is best not to do presents or cash until you are reunited, put the money in a separate account for the future. You need time to recover and find you again. I know how hard it is being on your own dealing with estrangement, but you really need to let things lie if you have tried everything otherwise it can be seen as invading their space. You are far from on your own as you can see by this forum. ?

So, what do Mother's do when when they have been cut off? I have had an awful year of counselling, both types or CBT and person centred. Now take meds. CBT helped me to deal with 23 years of a controlling husband & NC from my daughter. I have stopped trying to get her & my GC back after trying everything I can think of. I sent a cq for birthday Xmas pressies and my SIL phoned me in my lunch hour at work to tell me they had ripped it up. I said but it wasn't yours it was for the children. He said they had agreed that as they weren't speaking to 'the woman's (me) they didn't feel they could take the money. We both had a terrible time with my ex. I think she learnt control from him subcontiously. I really don't know what to do, so I have learnt self compassion & decide to be happy every morning as I only have one life.

She sounds a real peach. Frankly, I would be reporting her to Social Services for educational neglect and emotional abuse.

I would NEVER be seeing her or having any children around her. She isn't safe for adults, let alone children.

Hello,
I’m new here and I’m looking for advice(not judgement or ridicule).

I’m trying to see both sides of the situation I’m in.
And get input from the side I haven’t had input from before.

I’m an AC who is currently in the NC boat worth my MIl.

I have a complicated past with my own upbringing and may perhaps later divulge more details. For now though I’m
looking for insight into my situation with my MIL.

So here’s a little background- I’m not yet married into the family, but I’m engaged to her son.
We have one son together (a year old and 4 months old) and I have a 12 year old daughter from my previous marriage.

To start I’d like to give examples of a multitude of behaviors that have been inflicted on my fiancé, his other siblings, myself and my daughter.
And I suppose what I’m wanting to know, is how do you(as grandmothers, mothers) view this behavior.

I’m not looking for a diagnosis of my mil but an honest opinion if her behavior is not healthy and warrants my viewpoint of having no contact.

So some examples would be, that she has 7 kids in total.

There are 3 younger ones(20, 15, and 13 years old) (all boys) still living at home.

When I’ve been around - she belittles then, speaks to them like they are dumb, has called them “little bitches” when she doesn’t get a result she was looking for.

She homeschooled them and they spend all or most of their time playing video games.

No real schooling happens.
She pits one against another in fights.
She plays favorites and treats the younger boys like dirt and the oldest two of the 7 siblings get treated like they do no wrong.

The oldest brother(not my fiancé) drive drunk with another brother and ran over peoples lawns and almost got into a car wreck. And she passed it off that he was just “lost”.

The oldest brother stole my fiancé’s and my vehicle from his moms house - drive it out of state and when we confronted him - mil reprimanded my fiancé’s and I and told us we couldn’t tell the oldest brother he wasn’t allowed to use our vehicle.(he took it without permission or our knowledge.)

Anything that the oldest of the ones living at home(20 year old) does - my mil regularly refers to him a a “frickin’ idiot”, and he is continuously helpful and does just about anything his mom asks him to do.
He works for her lawn care business-(I use the term lightly) they only mow a few yards a weeek.
She refuses to let him seek gainful employment elsewhere (despite him wanting to Aires’s his wings).

None of the kids still living at home have any real life friends outside of each other.
Only online friends.
They are sheltered and deliberately held back on learning real life skills.
They do not communicate well with anyone.

The oldest brother and his wife just had a baby. my mil has poison ivy - when she asked to hold the baby - her son asked how her poison ivy was.

She responded by yanking her sleeves up -scratching her poison ivy and then scratching all over her upper body,

She then said “now it’s dverywjere, so I guess I can’t hold the baby.

She started crying. Stormed off, encountered her oldest daughter and the two of them ran off outside and talked(no one knows the details of the conversation).

Then the oldest sister & mil return back inside and both give a silent treatment/cold shoulder to the Mom of the baby.

If there is a family gathering, (when I was still attending),y
Mil makes tons of food.

I have 2 major food allergies - so I make a small lunchbox up and bring my
Own- to make it safer for me and easier for her,

She refuses to acknowledge how allergic I am.
So when I don’t eat the food she prepsred(because I’ve gotten sick from it in the past) she takes offense and throws fits and gets passive aggressive with me. Doing everything she can to make me uncomfortable in her presence, sneering at me, taking in s condescending way, etc.
Her oldest son has a nut allergy- if he can’t eat something- it’s fine.
She also goes to great lengths to try to make things safe for him.

She is one of 5 siblings - she has nothing but bad things to say about all of her siblings, she badmouths her mom, nieces and nephews. Anyone I’ve ever met in the family, I knew things about them(sometimes not true) that syed told me.
She has 4 ex husbands, everyone of them is the bad guy.
She kept all her kids from
Their dads.
She’s always a gossip, unpleasant to be around, never has anything nice to say.

When I fiancé was switching jobs - she kept telling him he’d fail st his new job, because he didn’t want to go to work where his older brother(her favorite son) worked.

She acts nice only if there are “outsiders” around, and then is awful and nasty in a more private setting.

I’m going to type more, but here’s a start.

Hoping it all makes sense and I wasn’t too much all ovEr the place.
Sorry for typos, my auto correct isn’t great about words it wants to use.

I don't know how much of this thread you've read Kittytella but there are several examples of A who've estranged themselves from their parents/p's.i.l. for perfectly justifiable reasons, and have been given support and understanding from others, including those who are themselves estranged.

Problems arise when estranged posters are doubted when they say they don't know why the estrangement has happened. When the 'reasons' they've been given are a tissue of lies.

The courtesy of those estranged which is given to those doing the estrangement should be reciprocated and to be fair, in the many cases it is. However, as has been demonstrated on this thread, and others regarding estrangement, by one poster in particular, this is not always the case.

The distress that can be caused by thoughtless and ill informed posts should not be underestimated.

This thread was started in an effort to answer the question why. The OP has done extensive research on this issue and this particular thread was to discuss 'The Brainwashing behind going non contact'. Something which many of us have experienced when a once loving and close relationship is destroyed by a third party.

There is a thread for the support of those living with estrangement however, that sadly is not immune from the
insensitive and judge mental posts that have appeared on here.

Those of us who have been estranged are sadly often told to look to ourselves for the reasons why Googoogool. I've been posting on this subject on GN for than 5.5. years and it's always been the same.

On the other hand, if you post here on GN that you've estranged yourself from you parents and refuse to allow them to see their GC, well no explanation is needed. You don't have to look at yourself to see where you've gone wrong, because you're right.

There is another form I frequent regarding estrangement and difficult relationships that has a rule of no "apologizing" for the other 'party'.

This means: Don't be deliberately antagonistic. Do not excuse or outright defend the other party - playing devils advocate in a support sub rarely goes down well.

This is not a sub with people coming to look for an answer to the 'why' - just a sympathetic circle where they can vent, and be understood - so there is no reason to try and advocate or speak for the adult no contact children. I can completely understand why it may be very hard to read this thread if you're an adult child who has had to go no contact for perfectly justifiable reasons, but this is most likely not the place to make a stand.

Maybe this might be a good 'rule' to adopt with forms dealing with such hot topic issues, such as no contact, when the individuals posting are not seeking advice. It might help deflate some of the tension, and keep the thread open to those still getting comfortable with online communities.

For clarity I posted the above in relation to the feeling that I and others, judging by the responses, get that somehow we really need to look at our own behaviour thoroughly, perhaps we really do deserve this cruelty. I doubt any on the receiving end of NC would feel the need to point out to someone that they may have erred. We come here to sympathise and support because we know that might help a tiny bit and anything that might ease our pain is a blessing.

Perhaps in relationships, families and forums there are some people who are not prepared to consider the feelings of others. No matter how painful those feelings clearly are. I hope in all the aforementioned I can be understanding of others point of view. However I won't compromise my ethics by ever condoning unkindness.
G

I threw my 2 cents in a few pages back but agnurse you have posted this..

'On the other side of the equation, my sister and BIL are estranged from my parents. We aren't entirely sure why.'
And then gone on to say how lovley they are.

That is the whole point to this thread. 'We aren't entirely sure why' Yes. Exactly and neither do many others.
Which is the point. That's the point!!

There you go again agnurse with your assumptions that always cast the estranged parent/GP in the worse possible light.

We have never asked or expected our DS to take sides. In the beginning of our estrangement we told him that we didn't want them to fall out over it but to be there for one another.

He was never regarded as a mediator and it has certainly never been suggested that by seeing his brother he is being disloyal to us.

Your H's experience with his aunt is unfortunate but don't assume that we are as inept at conducting adult relationships as she clearly is.

Our DS wanted to understand and after approaching 6 years of our estrangement is as confused as we are. Our DS saw his brother alienating himself from his entire family, apart from him, and was deeply concerned about the impact that would have on his brother and our GC. Our DS could see the pain we were in and was concerned about our welfare.

His love for his brother and his parents compelled him to try to help and bring about a reconciliation; sadly to no avail.

You referred to your parents sad situation as not being your "circus". Circus' are for entertainment and pleasure. There is nothing entertaining or pleasurable about estrangement.

Maybe you got your fingers burned when you tried to help your sister and your parents and that is why you have the attitude you do. Maybe, despite your assertion to the contrary, you are uncomfortable with your H's estrangement from his father and the fact that your children don't have a relationship with their GF. Could that be why you are so determined to find fault with those of us who are estranged?

I don't need your suggestions. He knew from day one of our estrangement that we would never seek to come between him and his brother.

We would not tell him that it isn't his affair because as his brother's brother and our son it is his affair. It's his family that has been torn apart.

We are thankful for his efforts and support. Perhaps your parents would have been thankful if they'd received these things from you.

Smileless

Your relationship with your son is not your other son's affair. To his brother, he will either look to be an interfering busybody, or it will look as if you're asking him to choose between his relationship with his brother and his relationship with you.

It's not fair to put your children in the middle of a disagreement with another person. Those kinds of things can lead to disasters. Hubby doesn't speak to his aunt, in part because Hubby (as an adult) was having online conversations with her ex. According to her, he was being "disloyal" by having anything to do with her ex. It wasn't her affair.

You can't dictate the relationship between two adults. Nor is it reasonable for your son to mediate your relationship. I would have suggested you tell him it wasn't his affair and you wouldn't get in the way of their relationship.

When two parents get divorced, is it reasonable for one parent to tell the children they can't have anything to do with the other parent because the parent can't stand them? Would the child be "disloyal" by having a relationship with both parents?

Luckylegs

That's not my battle to fight. If I started on my sister that way, I'd be poking my nose in where it doesn't belong. It's not my affair.

Would you start trying to mediate between your child and their partner if they were in a dispute? What about two coworkers who don't get along well together? More than likely you would be told to MYOB.

My sister doesn't owe me an explanation. That's not my business. I got in the middle of it last time. I'm not doing that again.

”All of those involved are adults. I don't police their conversations or their behaviour. It's not my affair”

Yet you insist on making it your affair, here on Gransnet, by challenging and questioning adults on a support thread. Then compound your constant unwanted interjections by giving your implacable opinion.

Agnurse, you say your a parents are fabulous and you don't know or want to know the reason they are estranged from your sibling. There are not many people who would not want to know, me included, why my lovely parents were suffering heartache, because they will be, however many children you have, you are only as happy as your unhappiest child. Blessed be the peacemaker, it's how you go about things that makes it interfering, caring and kindly intervention is not because the longer things go on putting it right becomes harder. I tried everything to no avail, but I am glad I tried.

Smileless

I don't say anything because it's not mu business. All of the parties involved are adults. I've told my parents I'm not getting in the middle. My sister left to be with her now-husband in another country several years ago. There was a falling out at that time too. I got it from both sides - her telling me how unreasonable our parents were being and them telling me how unreasonable she was being. This time I said No More.

All of those involved are adults. I don't police their conversations or their behaviour. It's not my affair.

agnurse...READ...

*Luckylegs9....

For those on here that have had this happen, and believe me I wouldn't wish it on anyone, just want to support each other because they understand

Goo...…

Feeling desperate was my reason for posting on GN. This is a support forum.....where we just want to support and comfort those who post a similar scenario.

IrishRose76...…

I don't want to justify myself, and there are other places for opposing views to be posted. I also don't want to be tarred with the same brush (as those who commit the cruel acts written about).

Smiless2012...…

Evil doers find their work easier when others don't take them to task*

agnurse…. AND LEARN.

I understand your reasons for not having anything to do with your f.i.l. agnurse. I don't know if you've ever commented on the way your parents are being treated, perhaps you have but maybe not as it's not your "circus".

I don't understand why a family member witnessing the unjustified and cruel behaviour of non contact toward another family member, doesn't speak up.

I know our DS has tried to talk to his brother about our situation in the past but to no avail. It's not a question of taking sides, it's a matter of seeing unacceptable behaviour and being prepared to speak out against it.

'Evil happens when good men do nothing' is perhaps overstating it but evil doers will find their work easier to carry out when they believe it is being condoned because others don't take them to task.

My feelings are the same as yours Goo. I just want to express my pain to others who are feeling the same pain. Offer whatever support I can. I don’t want to come here and have to justify why I am feeling that pain. A you say, there are many places where those who feel/have felt the need to estrange parents/grandparents can discusss their reasons, with those in the same situation. I am also more than capable of seeing why they have reached that decision. I would just ask not to be tarred with the same brush.

Such cruel behaviour really does beggar belief. Having worked in an advice capacity I was shocked at what went on in families quite near my own doorstep.
The experiences you mention (IME), are over the top behaviour and I can of course see how they can lead to a slippery slope. I would never dream of trying to condone cruel or thoughtless behaviour. Feeling desperate was my reason for posting on GN. Whilst I acknowledge there are many different reasons for NC, my own situation nor this thread were started to hear the opposing views, that is a perfectly valid reason for a new thread. To me this is a support forum where I can freely discuss my situation and feelings in the hope that I can find someone that makes me feel I am not alone. That I am understood and not the evil person that needs to be kept away. I feel as do others I think, that the wounds are so deep we just want to help and comfort those that post a similar scenario.

Agnurse, no one in their right minds would condone a relationship with grandparents who sexually, emotionally or physically abuse. That is a completely different matter. My children come guest after all. Yet, if you bought your children up with love and respect, you just expect they will be the same, but unfortunately for some fault children an imaginary slight or doing or saying done thing is taken out of context and you are out, any plea yo or tut out ignored because going nc is what they choose. For those on here that have had this happen, believe me I wouldn't wish it on anyone, just want to support each other because they understand.