Support for all who are living with estrangement

I meant in a court of law.

GranandAnna

You can still support your son while holding him accountable for what he did.

Can I ask why you say that Bibbity? There has been a lot of that said lately by my daughter and my other son and I can honestly say I have not understood it nor experienced it. I have been married over 40 years to the man and he has taken excellent care of me and provided for our children in an exemplary manner. He is an absolute work horse, abd has helped out my daughter all her life. She has always said she has never bothered with the AA because she always knew she could just ring her Dad and he would come to get her and she really was right, he would have.

You have brought it up and as I say you are not alone what are you seeing in here that I am missing. What do you mean?

I am going to keep this as close to board rules as I can.

Your husband is not a good man. He is a bad father and maybe not as bad as your son....but he is not far off. What an awful human.

We cannot make him do anything. I have not spoken to him in months since I found out the extent of what has happened. He and my husband no longer ever discuss what happened.

You didn’t answer any of my question so are you going to make him go to the police to save his victims that he forced himself on the horrors of court?

I don’t think we hide behind our religion Bibbity. I think we have been trying to use it to get through the worst thing we have ever had to face.

GG65 yes, you're right. But isn't that a horribly unfortunate by-product of both parties being loved family members? If the son had abused anyone outside the family, a mother would not be condemned for continuing to see the son, in prison or wherever he might be. The bond is understood. In the case of abuse within the close family circle, the mother also becomes a victim in a different sense. It's a no-win situation for all of them. In the cool location of outside looking in, I'd say I'd respect the daughter's need to be far far away from her brother - including at family occasions. He does have a price to pay, I'm afraid. But if this HAD actually happened in my life? If I WAS that mother? Would I think so rationally?

And yet you and your husband are still going to stand by him?
Do you have any idea how horrific trials like that are?
Surely the only good of you having contact with him is that you can tell him to do the right thing and go to the police to plead guilty?!?!
You and your husband hide behind your religion wouldn’t that be the ultimate Christian thing to do!!
Does your bible not say that he must atone for his sins?!

Madgran

That's a good point Readymeals, we simply don't know how we would have reacted if presented with the same situation. It doesn't bare thinking about does it.

I don’t know what he plans to do Bibbity. I doubt he is planning on pleading guilty. He certainly has not come forward to do so. He does not live in the jurisdiction anymore. We are not sure where exactly he is living. My husband doesn’t ask.

GG65 I work for victims of historic sexual abuse and sadly the attitude of GranandAnna is not at all uncommon amongst families of victims. It is just as damaging as the abuse

I agree! However I also don't think that expressing that to Grandanna unpleasantly (not you but others) is even vaguely helpful to her family or to her...or likely to help her understand the potential impact of her actions!

GG65 Anyone on this thread who is more concerned about the way Bibbity responded to GranandAnna, than with the content of GranandAnna’s posts, should take a look at themselves!

I have explained my view above!! My interest is in helping a poster to think about and consider their view/actions ...which is why I am concerned about the style of response! My concern does not relate in any way to my views on the OPs original post!!!!!

And as you are not a moderator you do not get to dictate what causes people to engage on a public forum.

I'm not moderating. I am just talking about common decency and the way to engage with others.

I suspect that you are enjoying then furore that you have created and so I will draw a line on our discussion.

Three things stand out for me.

Firstly for the daughters who were vulnerable, unprotected children this abuse can never be “in the past” . They will have to live with it till their dying day.

Secondly, it all flared up at the time of the brothers acrimonious divorce and the OP says that her son is not allowed to see his children. This suggests to me that the pattern of abuse has continued.

Lastly, the OP has to accept that this can never be the united family she craves. She and her husband have to decide who means most to them and who is in most need of their support, the victim or the perpetrator.

Something just dawned on me with a lot of horror.
You said his barrister doesn’t believe he will go down for this.

Does that mean he will not admit to his Crimes? That he will not just plead guilty? Is he going to actually put his victims through the horrors and ordeals of court?

I work for victims of historic sexual abuse and sadly the attitude of GranandAnna is not at all uncommon amongst families of victims. It is just as damaging as the abuse.

Bibbity, just on what you have said we did speak to Rape Crisis Counsellor’s early in before we found the mediators. Only on the phone. We did not experience anything but support from them.

Agnurse I don’t disagree with anything you have said, I don’t know what to expect from him anymore but not having any contact with any family seems so wrong. He is still human. He is still our son.

Anyone on this thread who is more concerned about the way Bibbity responded to GranandAnna, than with the content of GranandAnna’s posts, should take a look at themselves!

You do speak for you. However pretty much every rape and abuse charity would disagree with the way the OP has handled this so maybe she should look at the hard truth rather than the soft approach.
OK. I honestly couldn’t care. I will never ever ever worry about how a rapist apologist feels about me.

I'm sorry, GranandAnna, but statistically men who abuse children have the highest rate of repeat offenses of any type of offender.

That's not stereotyping. That's a fact.

Your son needs to be held accountable for what he did. He isn't safe around children - alone or otherwise. He isn't safe around your daughters. What would happen if he got together with a woman with children and then molested one of her daughters? (Not outside the realm of possibility. There are people who do this.) What if he decided to become a teacher or a nurse so he could have access to vulnerable people? (Again, there are people who do this.)

Maybe you didn't force your daughter to invite him to her wedding, but did you react negatively when she mentioned not inviting him? Did you tell her to be sure to invite him? Did you say something about this being all in the past?

The sad reality is that, depending on your son's mental state, he may not have changed. I'm not saying he is one, but many people who are sociopaths and psychopaths are capable of presenting as very charming and pleasant. It's all about their own gain. So even if he shouts to the rooftops that he's reformed, I would never trust him again. Ever.

I did not say I speak for all Bibbity, I said I speak for myself; it was you who said I don't speak for any.

There are also posters who do not like the way you have responded to the OP. Perhaps you should take a look at those.

People often stand by their children even when they are murderers. It's not that incredible to perceive. If both perp and victim are one's own loved children, it's must be very traumatising and unbalancing and how can anyone be sure they'd be thinking clearly?

You do not speak for all! Of course you don’t! That is a fact!
I am reading the responses of others who’ve read the Op. and trust me they are not backing her.

Yes I do Bibbity I speak for myself, a victim of sexual abuse. How dare you respond to me in that way when, for the first time, I told my own story in the hope of helping another in desperate need of help.