Support for all who are living with estrangement

Oh agnurse my heart sank when I saw you'd responded to GranandAnn. Could you please try and temper your responses and inject a little understanding and compassion.

It is not what you have said but the way you have said it. I don't know how much you know about sexual abuse but sadly I do know about it and not because of what I've read in books or been taught.

You don't have to use upper case and effectively shout. GranandAnna is a new poster, for goodness sake treat her with the respect and compassion that her first and soul bearing post deserves.

Thank you smiles and Agnurse for your replies. Smiles I am sorry to hear of your similar story.

Agnurse I am not in a place where I can read up on things of this nature. Originally I tried but it is just too hard in the head space I am in.

I don’t know what to start with but our younger daughter more recently maintains that she did not agree to putting it behind her. That is why she is so angry apparently. She says we forced her to have her brother at her wedding and his was a short while later and we forced her to attend his too. She was a grown woman, I don’t see how we could force her to do anything and I genuinely don’t remember any of this. The whole conversation was emotional and totally overwhelming. Her father and I sat her down and she was making all of these totally outrageous demands that we felt would have ruined our whole family and ruined our son’s future and we all agreed that it was better for everyone to put it behind us. She accepted that and never mentioned it again but then it all blew up all these years later and she has just become so, so angry and we simply cannot handle the anger.

Without a shadow of a doubt our elder daughter is the stronger one and she has literally been my rock through all of this time. I would be completely lost without her. We don’t really discuss what has happened anymore as we just don’t think it is helpful raking over what has happened and she seems more comfortable dealing with this privately.

My other son has been extremely confrontational with my husband and I over how we have handled everything and it is nearly impossible for us all to be in each other’s company anymore. He too had made inferences that there is something really wrong with my DHs reaction, like there is some formula about how parents can deal with something like this.

My other DS just doesn’t mention anything at all but we rarely speak only maybe once a month.

DH has always had a close relationship with our son who was the abuser, probably the closet of all our children and he is really struggling with the thoughts of losing that relationship. It would be fair to say they have been more like best friends than father and son.

I cannot help, even at this stage still feeling that the right course of action would have been leaving sleeping dogs lie. There has been simply no good in bringing this all to the surface. Our family, which was just a normal family, has been torn apart by this all happening and coming out has made it even worse.

I feel so ashamed and the worst mother ever for having a son who did this and I feel so guilty for not protecting my children. But now I feel angry too because my daughter refuses to recognise I am a victim in this situation too not the primary cause. I feel like her father and I are getting the entire blame from her for what has happened.

I’m sorry but I have to ask
What were her unreasonable demands?!

I can’t believe you are even mentioning this rapists future being damaged! He should be damaged. He should be imprisoned!
He should never be allowed near women or children he is dangerous!

You and your husband chose a rapist over his victims.

The right course of action would’ve been throwing this abuser out and standing by your daughters. He should never have been near them again. Did anyone support your daughters in going to the police to press charges against him?
Are they aware that it’s not to late to get a conviction?

You are not a victim! You didn’t get raped in your home and have to live with your rapist. You didn’t have to go through the metal anguish that they did.
You chose him over them. I can’t imagine how they must feel. How it must’ve felt to know that a rapist was loved more than them. To know that the pain and agony they must’ve felt meant nothing!

Bibbity that is not what happened. When our younger daughter described the abuse, she kept saying “oh it was nothing really” playing it right down, it is only in the last year she finally explained in graphic detail what had happened. We did ask her sister at the time of her brother had touched her, being entirely honest I think knowing our elder daughter in hindsight if it had been the other way around we would have been less surprised. The younger daughter had done really well in school and university and seemed to be more together in general. But she did have some relationship issues that rang alarm bells in university. We had no idea of the scale of the abuse when our daughter originally told us, not for many years after.

She said she wanted to tell everyone he was a paedohile, which as you can read above did not seem to be the case to us, we thought it was teenage misadventure. She said she wanted nothing more to do with him, which was going to tear the family apart completely. I don’t remember any of this conversation, this is what she told us more recently so I’m not really sure.

We have always had a together family and that would have been impossible if we could not have all of our children and grandchildren in the same pace. In fact we did have a together family for years after, she attended a lot of things he came too with their families. She already had a child before she married and she wanted that he would not have contact with her child. I assured her that she would never be alone ever with our son and she never ever was. Although our daughter and her husband would always be around with their children if he was there.

I believe our daughters have gone to the police now, they have not spoken to us about it. DH was told by our son who has spoken to a barrister that it is unlikely that he would be prosecuted for what has happened.

Your posts are very telling. All about you and holding the family together. Your daughters were raped. Your son is a monster.

The assurances you made to them should’ve been ‘ don’t worry you never ever have to see him again’

Is that statement coming from the rapist? Historical sexual abuse crimes are thankfully getting the recognition and punishments they deserve. I wouldn’t sleep easy if I were him. Hopefully for the safety of women he will be locked up soon and then he can find out what it’s like to be the vulnerable one at the mercy of those bigger and crueler than him.

Bibbity I am not going to engage with you. I am not saying I am a victim in the same way as my daughters but for gods sake I gave up my whole life to raise my children, I tried to support them in everything they did, I worked extremely hard in my home, I gave them everything I could and all I have now at the end of my life in the remnants of a life. Nothing, none of the important stuff. I love my family all of them and I’ve lost that. I feel like a victim of something. My son’s behaviour has victimised me too and yes my daughter who was in my life on a daily basis has left me bereft too.

I gave up my whole life to raise my children, I tried to support them in everything they did, I worked extremely hard in my home, I gave them everything I could and all I have now at the end of my life in the remnants of a life.

You. You. You. You.

What are you doing to help your daughters secure a conviction against their abuser?
Will you be giving a statement on their behalf?

If I am asked to give a statement, I will. I don’t have anything to say other than what I have been told by my daughters but I believe them completely and yes I will give a statement.

Look I am going to leave this now, thank you for the some help I have been given here but I can see this is not going to be a supportive environment either which at the moment is the absolute story of my life. There are lots of Bibbitys about and I just cannot hack the constant criticism as my life continues down the toilet. Thanks again.

GranandAnna, actually this thread and its ancestors is usually ok. I am sure a moderator will be along soon to sort it out

The thing is, Bibbity, there are other threads to deal with the other side of the story, this one exists to deal with the grandparents' side.

BS. Some people shouldn’t be supported. They should be told they are in the wrong. And rapists and rapists apologists are pretty much the top of this list. OP isn’t safe to be around her GC. She puts a rapist above safety.

Bibbity I am so shocked and outraged that you have been so completely unpleasant to a new poster who is clearly struggling. I actually agree with some of what you have said in terms of parental responses to abuse within the family but such obnoxiously rude responses from you will not help the OP, who is clearly struggling hugely, to think again about the way forward. Constructive criticism is one thing and can help people to recognise their mistakes and change their views and approaches! Your posts do not provide constructive criticism or insight! Dear me!

Why is it my responsibility to provide that? The Op has repeatedly shown how she feels she is the victim for having to live through the turmoil of her families fall out. While giving a disgusting lack of care for her daughters. Is somebody really that dense that they need to be told to cut off a rapist?!

What is the point of posting then if not to provide either support, help or constructive criticism?

If you don't want to post in a way that enables people to listen, learn, understand their mistakes or whatever ...including what I also think was a mistaken approach to her son ….then why bother to post at all?

I don't want this thread to be derailed but dear dear me, I hope that you can reflect on the pointlessness of ranting at a new poster who is trying to find a way through a mess (and if she does that might actually benefit her unhappy family!!)

I posted because I have never felt something that filled me with absolute disgust before. I honestly did not believe that there were people who thought like this. Much less publicly tried to justify themselves!
And as you are not a moderator you do not get to dictate what causes people to engage on a public forum.

GranandAnna

I hope that people who are judging and blaming you will try to keep in mind that there are sound reasons why some parents remain unaware and therefore miss possible indications of their child or children being abused. For example, a parent who was herself/himself abused when young and who has been in a persistent dissociative state for many years - perhaps because of an ongoing trauma disorder - will not be as likely to notice the possible signs as someone less impaired or closed down by this protective defence mechanism which is thought to operate outwith conscious control.

I wish that there was a gentle way of phrasing this but unfortunately there isn't. Your formerly abusive son may also have abused other children/young people in the past and I am inclined to agree that he is quite likely to remain a danger to children/young people because of this revealed history. There may be other factors which contribute to his present day risk of reoffending such as whether or not he uses child pornography. None of us can assess this overall degree of risk adequately, of course, as this is best done over the course of several structured interviews by a professional person with specialist training who is probably working in a forensic setting. This paragraph about your son's likely dangerousness does not imply that you or your husband or you both together are to blame for his behaviour.

Please consider looking for an experienced counsellor or therapist - perhaps via Relate, some of whose practitioners also work with families (if any of your adult children wish and consent to attend) - to discuss this complex issue and the impact of its ramifications on yourselves. (S)he will help you compassionately to explore and process various aspects at a manageable pace, including areas, if any, where you and your DH may hold yourselves responsible to some degree (as suggested by your use of the words "guilt" and "shame"). (S)he will also support and guide you within appropriate ethical and legal frameworks.

How shocking and upsetting all this must be for you and your DH, as well as for your younger daughter and other family members. I think that you are to be admired for having the courage to reach out to us so openly in this way and sincerely hope that you will receive empathy and good wishes here which will bring some comfort at this time and as you go forward.

Thanks to the more recent posters for your understanding. I thought I had shut down the page but I don’t seem to know how to. We are reluctant or more like unwilling to go to any form of therapy because the mediation was with a family therapist and it was just awful. We would never have been gone on the idea of therapy for us before those sessions but afterwards it really is a no go for us.

The outcome was horrendous and even though the therapist had been great with my husband right up until the appointment where my daughter actually attended, he absolutely broke my husband at the appointment with my daughter. He was not remotely impartial and he told my husband his behaviour and reactions were inappropriate and he also told my husband that it was okay that my daughter was telling us to cut off our son which is a big deal for my husband. When my daughter went to leave after telling my husband that she could not continue a relationship with him any longer, my husband said the therapist seemed to be completely encouraging her decision which seems absolutely ludicrous for a mediator to do. My husband rarely leaves the house since the mediation because he has been traumatised since.

These are things my husband does not accept and now therapy for both of us is not something we feel able to pursue even with a different therapist.

Well to be frank Bibbity if I can be supportive, understanding and show a degree of sympathy having been the victim of sexual abuse, that was not acted upon by my parents, I see no reason why you can't be.

But if you can't, this is not the thread for you.

I have not been abused smiless. But I can promise you from sharing this thread. You do not speak for any abuse victims.

GranandAnna

You mention that your husband's Christian faith is important to him and this has prompted him to forgive your abusive son. Can you access Christian counselling, should you have the emotional strength and inclination to try again?

Regarding the mediator/family therapist whom you saw, it sounds as if he might be considered guilty of professional misconduct because of his very partial attitude. Perhaps you should consider reporting him to the relevant professional body with which he is registered so that there can be a full enquiry.

Bibbity can I ask you? you speak with such authority that you would cut your son off, I mean ask me 15 years ago and I would have said exactly the same.

I haven’t spoken to him since the further revelations came out but my husband has. If we don’t help him become a better person who will? If we don’t stand by him, who will? None of his siblings speak to him. His ex wife won’t let his children near him. What is the easy answer here. I can tell you something for nothing my daughter absolutely idolises her son, she would not be able to make an easy decision if she was in her parent’s shoes.

I don’t think we have the strength to deal with that therapist. He told DH from the very first day that he would not be dealing with the crimes our son had committed impartially. I guess that worked while our daughter was not attending but it did not work while she was there because he kept emphatically saying how wrong my husbands understanding of things was which just added fuel to the fire.

We have been praying a lot to get us through but I am not sure about Christian therapy either.

Nobody should stand by him! He is a vile disgusting abuser! He should be in jail. He will never be a good person.
If you came here after just finding out you would have my sympathy. But look at what you just wrote about the mediators! Of course they supported your daughter! She is the victim and you should cut him off!

Your daughter deserves so much more than what she has been given. My heart truly breaks for the both of them. I hope beyond anything that they have a good support system around them to repair the awful damage that the three of you have done.