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Article in Telegraph

(51 Posts)
Minty Sat 22-Jun-19 11:54:00

This is in todays magazine

Minty Sat 22-Jun-19 16:32:01

Thank you Gonegirl

Minty Sat 22-Jun-19 16:33:57

It is true it doesn't say anything we didn't know already but it raises awareness. Particularly to those who have never heard of it before, because as we all know it can happen to anyone at anytime.

annodomini Sat 22-Jun-19 17:10:15

What an amazing effort, GG. It really brings it home when you read these case histories. And I acknowledge how very lucky I have been with my five GC.

Cherrytree59 Sat 22-Jun-19 17:53:33

Gonegirl well done and thank you?

We are lucky if we see my one grandson (soon to be 4yrs) 3 times a year for a few hours at a time. There is no real estrangement, just they are always too busy.

They live 2 hours away (by car) and he is my son and dil's only child.

I find it sad, we are the only living grandparents and so he is missing out on cousins and family events.

Our grandson does know who we are and we try to chat to him on the on the phone. We send presents and pictures especially of him with his cousins.

We are very careful to try and keep everything on an even keel and not rock the boat as the fear of not seeing our grandson even for a couple of hours 2 or 3 times a year is unbearable.sad

My other two DGS live quite near and we are
hands on grandparents.

My DD said even if we were to have a fall out, she would never deprive her children of their grandparents.
Her boys have another grandmother who lives quite a distance away but my DD keeps in regular contact and has also promised her that she will always make sure the boys have a good relationship with her.

I had a rocky relationship with my mother in law, but I made sure that my DH took our children every 2 weeks to visit their grandparents.

I feel so sad when I read the stories of the many heart broken grandparents whose lives are emotionally destroyed.

I had a wonderful loving relationship with both sets grandparents.
They lived 300 miles away.
We visited them and they visited us several times a year.
I still miss them so muchsad

MacCavity2 Sat 22-Jun-19 17:56:20

Thank you very much GG so much to take in. I had no idea that in other countries grandparents had rights to see their grandchildren. It will take forever for this to happen here.
I truly despaired of this subject ever becoming public as I know how ashamed people are of family and friends finding out they are estranged. “Am I a monster “ they ask themselves. What almighty grievous harm have I done to deserve this? Everyone will think I’m not fit to be a grandmother.
Do grandparents have any value these days. I find it amazingly short sighted that adult children don’t realise how important extended family is to their children.
The various family cultures and history that us useless grandparents have knowledge of is essential to their children’s well being.
Doctors ask us for information about our family medical history. Are there allergies, heart problems, any diseases that can be passed from one generation to another. Surely these and plenty of other issues are good reasons to need the older generations.
I’m told there is an epidemic of entitlement in the younger generation. If there is it’s probably our fault as we are responsible for all the problems in this world.
I am dealing with my own estrangement by refusing to let it harm my health. Changing my will and enjoying spending my money on holidays etc. And I have to tell myself I’m worth more than this. Oh and I have fabulous friends and the rest of my family and a brilliant social life. Good luck to all the grandparents who are in the same boat as me. You are worth more than this.

Sara65 Sat 22-Jun-19 18:20:20


That’s so nicely said, I’m sorry for your estrangement, and for everyone else affected, but I’m sure you are dealing with it in the best way possible

I know I’d be devastated to lose any of my grandchildren, and I think the local ones would miss us terribly, as we have always been such a big part of their lives

Thinking of you all

Gonegirl Sat 22-Jun-19 18:29:38

You make some good points there MacCavity2.

Why is this happening? I'm sure it didn't when I was little. Grandparents were always part of the family back then.

Is it the internet encouraging it?

It's horrible. sad

Gonegirl Sat 22-Jun-19 18:31:32

Esther Rantzen has done, and is doing, as much as she can.

Come on Esther! Keep it up!

Sara65 Sat 22-Jun-19 18:45:16

Yes Gonegirl, I agree, why is it happening?

I didn’t always see eye to eye with my mother in law, she most definitely overstepped the mark at times, but I’d never ever consider cutting her out of our childrens lives, they loved her and would have been devastated.

Maybe one day these deprived children will realise that their grandparents aren’t the bad guys!

Smileless2012 Sat 22-Jun-19 19:46:28

Well done Gonegirl for reproducing the article for everyone to read.

Gonegirl Sat 22-Jun-19 20:02:52

Thank you! smile

Starlady Sun 23-Jun-19 03:03:34

Thank you for bringing this article to our attention, Minty. And thank you GoneGirl for copying and pasting, so we can all read it.

True, it doesn't tell us much that is new. But it gives us the scope of the problem and shows 3 different situations in which this can take place.

"I had no idea that in other countries grandparents had rights to see their grandchildren. "

McCavity, please read again. The article doesn't say that GPs in other countries "had rights" to SEE their GC. It says they have the right to APPLY TO SEE their GC.

"In virtually every other country in the world, grandparents have the right to apply to see their grandchildren..."

In the UK a GP has to prove they have a close connection w/ their GC to even get to apply to see them. In other countries the GP can apply if they want and only have to have proof of this/that in order to win. Either way, there's no guarantee, the GPs will win their case.

It's all very sad, IMO> Once again, my heart goes out to all here who are CO from their AC and GC.

GoodMama Mon 24-Jun-19 19:28:26

It's a very sad article. I feel for the grandparents. They sound completely besides them selves at the grief. It's so very unhealthy, to wrap ones own happiness up in someone else's life and child.

What I don't understand is how they cannot see their own culpability in any of it.

One mentions she held her son's daughter in her arms right after she was born and saw her every day until the parents cut her off. Did she not see how inappropriate it was to insert herself into a new family like that?

Stories of grandparents mourning the loss of a grandchild, but ok with the loss of their own child. It's baffling.

Expecting a DIL to come to your dinner table weekly for "family dinner" regardless of her own wants, needs and time management. I know this will go over like a ton of bricks here but it's rude and presumptuous.

When you son or daughter get married you are seeing them form a new family. Not an extension of your family. You are no "gaining a daughter or son". You are witnessing your adult child form their own new family outside of yours. Sure, there is still a relationship, but it is drastically changed.

Again, I know i've said it before, but it's all about expectations. When adult children get married and create their own family, then welcome their own children it's a tight knit circle and bond between them.

Maybe you welcomed your parents and inlaws to be part of your nuclear family. That is wonderful if you did and enjoyed it. But I just don't understand the villainizing these DILs because they don't do what you did or what you want.

There is an epidemic of entitlement in our society. Some of these Grandparents feel they have "ownership" or rights to other people. And anyone who tells them different is not only wrong, but mentally unstable.

It's just terribly sad. All of these families put under so much outside stress from people with their own expectations. And as the article (pretty onesided, speaking to their audience for sure) says, it's breaking up larger extended family groups.

I wish articles like this we balanced and could be used to help people, rather than fuel the fire.

Pantglas1 Mon 24-Jun-19 20:35:02

Goodmama. You are right that people take their examples from their own backgrounds but how do they introduce new no contact into their lives when there’s been no practice before?

And how would they feel if it happened to them? Would they apply the same justifications in ten or twenty years time and their sons/daughters repeated the scenario.

GoodMama Mon 24-Jun-19 20:48:22

Pantglas1, I want to respond to your question in the best way I can, but I apologize, I don't understand what you are asking. Could I possibly ask you to rephrase?

"how do they introduce new no contact into their lives when there’s been no practice before?"

Pantglas1 Mon 24-Jun-19 21:06:21

Thank you Goodmama for asking for an explanation. I don’t come from a family where this had happened before but it happened to me with my daughter and her husband.

He had experienced it in his family and introduced it as a first go-to answer to my daughter where we had all done previously the talk, disagree, compromise resolution.

I will never believe that War, war, war is better than Jaw, jaw
, jaw, especially where grandchildren are involved.

GoodMama Mon 24-Jun-19 22:13:27

Pantglas1, I think what you are saying is that in your family you talked things out and found compromise but in your son in laws family they are quicker to put distance than compromise.

Please let me know if I have missed the mark.

I would say that is certainly a tough situation for your daughter to navigate. But, surely she knew who she was marrying.

It is my opinion, different than others (possibly including yours) and that is ok, everyone one is entitled to their own opinion- that any compromising about your daughter and son in laws children should be done between the two of them. Unfortunately, and I believe you won’t like this- it’s not my intent to offend you- you don’t have a voice in their family. Including how they raise their children or how involved you are in their children’s lives. It is up to the both of them.

I understand that may hurt. But you raised your daughter (I assume) to be a strong and resourceful woman. She will work with her husband to achieve what is best for her children.

But she cannot fight her husband for your wants or needs. Her husbands wants and needs for his own family come before your wants regarding his children.

I hope you have a wonderful relationship with your daughter and her family.

Pantglas1 Tue 25-Jun-19 06:57:50

I do GoodMama and with my son in law and I have huge respect for the way they’ve raised their children to be polite and hardworking. However it saddens me that they haven’t had contact with their other grandmother since infancy and they are aware of my feelings on this. As you say, their choices and possibly one their own children will consider in the future.

Nonnie Tue 25-Jun-19 10:31:30

Thanks for copying the whole article, very interesting.

GoodM I cannot agree that people are 'victimising' their dils. I really don't see it like that. I think most are puzzled about why they are suddenly cut off from family in what they consider unreasonable circumstances. It is very easy for someone who has not experienced this to think they understand about it but until it happens to you you really don't.

Imagine a scenario where there are 3 or 4 dils and everyone gets on well apparently until suddenly one dil decides to cut you off. She then, one by one, cuts off the rest of the family and denies access to the children. She even cuts off members of her own family. What if she also denies access to their father? I am sure many will think this is unlikely but I have seen it and I doubt that I am alone. It is so easy to suggest the GP just let it go but how can you let go people you love? More importantly, how do the children feel about being denied people they love?

I also don't think that the way our AC are brought up or the person they were before they married is necessarily how they are now. Psychologists know that personality changes due to life experience and therefore any test of personality is only valid for up to 2 years.

We have all heard a lot about manipulative behaviour, coercive control etc and it is often assumed this is about men's behaviour but I have been on GN a long time and know that women are just as bad but that men complain less often because they feel it is their own failure.

It is not so simple. Those who have been cut off should know that parents don't have 'rights', they have 'responsibility'. Children have a 'right to family life' and the courts are beginning to recognise that includes grandparents unless there is a good reason why not.

MacCavity2 Tue 25-Jun-19 17:00:33

Thank you Nonnie your words were very helpful to me as other people on GN make me feel I’m living in the dark ages.

Smileless2012 Tue 25-Jun-19 21:34:27

Good post Nonniesmile. Our ES is not the young man he was before he got married, even his physical appearance has deterioratedsad.

As well as raising both of our sons to be strong and resourceful GoogMama, we also raised them to be caring, loving, loyal and respectful. Qualities that our ES know longer seems to have.

Smileless2012 Tue 25-Jun-19 21:35:51

sorry GoodMama for the typing error and calling you Googblush

GoodMama Tue 25-Jun-19 22:13:00

Smileless2012, no offense taken on name error, we all do it from time to time smile

Bopeep14 Wed 26-Jun-19 14:38:06

I am reading a book at the moment titled Done with the crying by Sheri McGregor. It is certainly helping me understand things a lot better, and is helping me put things in perspective. I still miss my sons and grandchildren dreadfully but time is helping me cope. I still have the odd meltdown but it not as often.

moggie57 Wed 26-Jun-19 14:46:16

Hannah and Alan* haven’t seen their grandchildren for many years. There are now one million children in the UK who are being denied contact with their grandparents, often because of a daughter-in-law’s parental agenda. Sally Williams reports on the rise and rise of fractured families

'How many grandchildren do you have?’ is a casual question for most grandparents, but for John* and Kate it is a very painful one. Kate’s response is to gloss over the facts. But John will give the real answer, ‘We have three grandchildren, but we haven’t seen our oldest two for 14 years, even though they only live 10 minutes away. Our daughter-in-law has cut us out of our grandchildren’s lives. At first