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Estrangement

Do not let estrangement ruin your life.

(92 Posts)
Peonyrose Sat 06-Jul-19 07:34:41

When you are estranged from someone you love so much, it us hard to think of anything else. After trying reconcilliation and being rebuffed, please try hard not to let it spoil your life, keep busy and work at being happy with what you do have otherwise it's a waste if a life.

Smileless2012 Tue 23-Jul-19 10:16:42

A terrible situation to be in and for me, there's no way I would see our ES without Mr. S. That said, it's more likely that our ES would want to see his father without me. This is no reflection on Soozi.

I think that Namsnanny is right about the distinct possibility that divisions could be created in the parents' relationship; 'divide and conquer' springs to mind. How would the other parent cope, knowing that their husband or wife was seeing their EAC and quite likely the GC too?

We all want to be selfless don't we, do what we can for those we love but could we really know how our partner would feel if they didn't want to stand in our way but by being honest, and saying how upsetting the situation was, they'd know that for their sake we wouldn't agree to see our EAC without them?

SparklyGrandma Tue 23-Jul-19 06:22:26

Well said Peonyrose there is life after and during estrangement in a family. Best to keep busy, build a different but positive life, don’t dwell on the why’s and maybe’s. Distraction, self forgiveness if needed and loving the life, friends etc that we do have, is the way to go.

And not to just survive, but to have a good and happy life 🌻🌻🌻

Starlady Tue 23-Jul-19 05:59:55

Please us know what you decide, Soozi.

Starlady Tue 23-Jul-19 05:59:12

Soozi, I'm sorry about DH's health issues and hope he is much better now. Also, I'm so sorry about the problems w/ your YDS (youngest dear son). Whatever "bad things" her remembers from his childhood, unless abuse was involved (and I'm not getting that impression), I don't understand how he can still be holding it against DH after the man has suffered 2 strokes! Mindboggling!

Are there any particular issues between him and DH that could be resolved. If so, does DH feel up to working on them?

Regardless, what an awful position YDS has put you in - rock and hard place - get to see him and leave DH behind or stand by DH but lose out on seeing YDS. I'm not sure what choice I would make. Usually, I would stand by DH, hands down - wouldn't even have to make a choice, it would be obvious to me. But, IMO, it's a more difficult choice when a DS or DD is involved.

Hmmm... I THINK in the end, I would, generally, stand w/ DH, taking the position that we're a team, a package deal, etc. However, if I thought DH had caused the rift or was being too stubborn to do what he needed to do to begin to fix the issue, then I might focus on salvaging what I could of my own relationship w/ my AC.

Then again, I see mumofmadboys' point. But that's something I'd have to talk over w/ DH. If we agreed that my seeing YDS might lead to his seeing both of us, in time, then I might go ahead and see him w/o DH. But if DH said he would feel ostracized, etc. as Namsnanny mentioned, then I wouldn't. It would be a joint decision between DH and me even if it were not a joint visit.

Starlady Tue 23-Jul-19 05:43:24

Maddy, it definitely does sound as if your son is acting out of jealousy - and has been all along. Even his support of you and DH when you were having problems w/ your D was, I'm afraid, probably a reflection of his jealousy of her. My guess is he was hoping you'd come to see her in a more negative light and that's what he was supporting (sigh). So sorry about this.

About the weddings - As far as I know, it's traditional for parents to spend more on their DD's wedding than their DS', just as his bride's parents often spend a lot on his/her wedding. Granted, times have changed. And yes, giving 3 equal wedding contributions may have been a better idea. But it wasn't "wrong," IMO, to do things the more traditional way, and I think it's rather childish of your S to have been upset about that. Perhaps his feelings of sibling rivalry w/ your D go back farther than that? Regardless, his current behavior is out of line, IMO, and very immature.

Namsnanny Mon 22-Jul-19 14:25:48

Mumofmadboys...I can see the sense in your suggestion. It does seem to be the pragmatic way forward.
But I do feel for the partner who is ostracised, treated like the scapegoat with the finger of blame silently pointed at them.
It could be construed as a controlling action ment to divide the couple in question and silently collude with the protagonist.
I don’t know how I would react in that situation!

mumofmadboys Mon 22-Jul-19 14:17:55

Although I agree parents come as a pair, I think if your son is prepared to see one of you go along with it and hopefully he will eventually be happy to see you both.

Smileless2012 Mon 22-Jul-19 13:07:19

Yes maddy I do remember. I remember your D's problems which was why you tried so hard to keep the means of communication open to her, and to constantly remind her of your love. She was ill so the pain and suffering she put you through was not under her control. Your son on the other hand is in control.

Thank goodness his partner is not allowing his petty jealousy to impact on your relationship with your GC. I hope that she will be able to stand against him on this issue for the sake of their child.

It's good to hear that your D is receiving the treatment she needs and is making such good progress. What a shame that your son rather than join in the celebrations of his sister's recovery and re connection with her parents, has decided to mimic her behaviour and behave in a way he was previously so incensed by. envyis such a destructive emotion; it was our ES's wife jealousy of our relationship with our ES and mine in particular, that resulted in our estrangement.

A terrible position for you to be in Soozi. To agree to see you but not your DH is IMO out of order. You are both his parents and come as a pair.

maddyone Mon 22-Jul-19 12:11:37

Soo I, it is terrible isn’t it? But you have five others who are not doing this, try to enjoy them.

maddyone Mon 22-Jul-19 12:10:30

Thank you Smileless, you’re right, why would he do this if he was protective of us. These two children of ours got on so well as children. The jealousy really seemed to start when we paid entirely for our daughter’s wedding, but we gave our sons a substantial sum of cash towards theirs. Now I think we should have taken all the money and divided it into three and given it to them. But we can’t change the past, we can only go forward and accept our behaviour may have been a mistake. Even then, although there were clear signs of jealousy, I chose to think it was not too important. Probably wrong again. It kicked off very badly when our son had his child, thus making our daughter’s children no longer our only grandchildren. Plus mental health issues, plus family history of mental health issues.
Anyway, here we are again and to be honest I’ve had enough of it. If he wants to hurt us and reject us, after seeing how upset we were before, I think I must have hardened somewhat, because I’m just thinking he can get on with it, I’ve had enough.

Soozikinzi Mon 22-Jul-19 11:17:55

We have 5 sons and 1 stepson we are close to them all apart from the third of mine 4th of DHs . He doesn’t get on with his dad who has had 2 strokes. He will agree to see me on my own but then I feel disloyal to his dad . He seems to only remember bad things from his childhood where the other brothers remember all the good things. It’s very upsetting some days it’s all my DH will talk about. I just keep reminding him that we get on fine with the others . I’m not saying we’re perfect by any means but it’s a terrible thing when you’ve had a child that rejects you in this way . I just say it’s his loss which my DH does seem to accept now.

maddyone Mon 22-Jul-19 11:16:53

I’m afraid if any of you ladies could read the email my son sent to both myself and my husband, you would not be able to think that he is in any way trying to protect us. Smileless will most likely remember that our sons were both very supportive when our daughter was avoiding us. Our son states in his email that we have ‘aligned’ ourselves with our daughter. But Smileless will also remember I think, that I regularly said how much we loved all our children, but our daughter was suffering from mental health issues including severe PND. She has been treated and is recovering well now. Our son is clearly jealous of his sister, he was jealous of her before he had his child, and continues to be jealous now. Last year he totally cut off his sister, telling her he never wanted to see her again. This was not helpful in her recovery. He has now sent us a vile email, listing all our faults as he perceives them, telling us he has no respect for us, and that we do not know how to love, and have no sense of commitment or obligation, and he returned the money we had given to him for his birthday. Now obviously I can’t put all the details on here, but to put it simply, I thought he had outgrown his jealousy of his sister when he supported us in our distress over his sister, but it turns out to not be the case. We have done regular childcare for him, loved him and our grandchild, been on holidays with him, but now this. He has not however cut us off from our grandchild, who is coming for an overnight stay later today. That is why this is not a grandchild estrangement, but does appear to be an AC estrangement, clearly we have not seen him since his email. His partner will bring our grandchild to us.

Smileless2012 Mon 22-Jul-19 09:29:36

If Maddy's son is reacting in this way because of what his sister has put her though, why on earth is he doing exactly the same thing?

Starlady Sun 21-Jul-19 06:13:07

Sharon makes a good point, IMO, Maddy. Come to think of it, S could also be wondering how you could possibly have reconciled w/ her after all she put you through. He should have expected it, but perhaps he didn't. If so, hopefully, he'll get over it in time.

sharon103 Tue 16-Jul-19 16:33:57

maddyone after reading your posts I saw your son's estrangement in a different light. I don't know what trauma your daughter caused you but you do say that your son was very supportive of you and know doubt he was very upset and worried about you. You're his mum. Know doubt he was angry too with your daughter for what she did to you.
You've now taken her back into your life and in his mind thinks she doesn't deserve it and she could do the same thing to you all over again. After all, he went through it all with you too. I don't think it's jealousy. I think it's protection because he loves you and he doesn't want to see a repeat performance. I think, and only my opinion but as I've already said, I think he is angry and thinks 'you've made your bed now lie in it' and don't expect me to come running when and if she disowns you again. I reckon he needs some time to calm down and to be honest this is how I would be feeling too if in the same situation and a little pushed out. flowers I hope you can work out what I mean.

Smileless2012 Tue 16-Jul-19 15:27:37

Dawnflowers

Dawn22 Mon 15-Jul-19 22:12:59

Thank you Smileless you give such solid practical advice.

Thank you Can only but try for your understanding and empathy.

Estrangement is hard to deal with especially when our natural tendency is to like and to love. Through no fault of my own many very tricky personality types were put on my path, family, friends - you name it, l have it.
Dawn

Smileless2012 Mon 15-Jul-19 14:05:29

MissiseffflowersI'm so very sorry.

Sara is right, we all make mistakes. Could you block the means they are using to deliver their hurtful rhetoric?

If it's via text messages and/or emails you could block them. Before doing so say you'll only be available for contact on your 'phone (landline) that way, there is a way for them to get in touch but it's being limited and if during a 'phone conversation they become abusive, at least you can end the call.

Sara65 Mon 15-Jul-19 13:24:59

Mississeff

At least you’re being honest with them and admitting you made mistakes, which let’s face it, don’t we all?

Keep trying, it sounds like the door hasn’t been completely shut

Missiseff Mon 15-Jul-19 12:49:12

I really don't know how to live with the pain. All this talk of start a new life. My kids are/were my life and I don't know how to live without them. They've got each other but have both decided they don't want or need me. We used to be very close. I messed up for which I have grovelled and apologised for, but have been told saying sorry doesn't fix it. I'm missing out on their lives, which I have always been there for, and that of my soon-to-be-born grandson whom I have been told I have to wait for an invitation to meet. I've said some things in the past which I regret but I am getting some very very hurtful things said to me that I am finding hard to live with.

Jennyluck Sat 13-Jul-19 15:08:37

The mistake I made with my son, was thinking he loved me as much as I loved him 😢😢
He didn’t !!!!
Hard to come to terms with. It also seems a lot of entrancement happens when your child meets someone and falls in love, there new love and family become so much more important than their own family.
This hurts so much, the new partner I get but why the family. ??? 🤔

Smileless2012 Sat 13-Jul-19 15:00:07

Recently when discussing estrangement from the perspective of the EAC, there's been some references to AC no longer living in the FOG. Apparently this stands for fear, obligation and guilt.

Once they realise they've been living in this FOG and no longer want to do so, they cut their parents out of their lives.

It seems to me that there are plenty of EP's and GP's living in this FOG. Fear of being cut out, feeling obliged to put up with whatever their AC throw at them in case they are, and then when they do, guilt for not being a 'better' parent.

maddyone Sat 13-Jul-19 14:15:03

Agree Sara, thank you for support ladies. I’ll probably go back on the estrangement thread I think, it was helpful to me last time, and this thread is also supportive. I can’t see any real way forward after what my son has said.

Stella14 Sat 13-Jul-19 12:31:15

That’s a lovely post Smileless 💐

Sara65 Sat 13-Jul-19 11:33:50

Maddy

Pantglas is right, but I know how you feel, as I said, we’re not estranged from any of our children, but we have had problems, and I totally relate to what you’ve said about jealousy, I think that’s the basis of all our problems, we try to be scrupulously fair, but one child has needed more support, her problems are of her own making, but we love her, and help as much as we can, how can we not?