Child arrangement court order

I’m not estranged from my parents, or my inlaws, my children have great relationships with both sides.

I was estranged as a child from my favourite aunt, she was mad at my father, and refused to see me because of it. My parents kept trying to facilitate that relationship, and every time I was hurt by it. I wish they had stopped trying. When I did see her, she talked poorly about my parents.

So no, you don’t actually have me pegged.

I just happen to feel that extended family value is only a value if all parties want it.

At the time he told me, they weren't married and we weren't estranged Hithere. The estrangement came 3 years later so no, he hasn't told us why we're estranged.

His wife regarding him as a mummy's boy was never given as a reason and the only problem he had with her comment at the time was that she said it and he was offended by it for himself and for me.

Really!! Of course you can be denied something "if it never belonged to you or had rights to it in the first place" but we're not talking about things, we're talking about human beings, not it's.

People, with feelings not property. Be careful Hithere you sound as if you regard your children as your possessions, to do with as you wish, well they're not and you shouldn't.

I don't sound angry, I am angry but not because our estrangement, because of the constant blaming of EP's and GP's by those who are themselves not estranged, one who isn't a GP and several who are themselves estranging AC.

Gosh I find the idea of GPs wanting to tell children their side of the story horrifying. If the child's parents are abusive then they should rightfully be reported to the relevant authorities. If they aren't, whether a GP gets contact through court or connects to them in later life... Wanting to impart their side of the story again seems like a competition for the child's affection. As a teacher I have seen the damage this does to children first hand when their parents seperrate and one wants to get across their side. Personally I have told my younger child my mother was unkind to me. My older child saw enough for himself. Now if either of my children want a relationship with my mother I will never stand in their way. If however she wants to give her side, however she sees it I will not compete for them. I will simply explain that if they need to put me down or demean me to my own children, they are Not good people.

You cannot be denied anything if it never belonged to you or had rights to it in the first place

Smileless,

So your es told you what the problem (or part of it) is!
Why do you say you don't know why your es estranged you/he never told you?

It doesn't matter whether I think it is enough to estrange or not, your son and dil thought it was, together with maybe other issues in your relationship.

The issue here is that you do not acknowledge it as a problem, your es does.

Btw, you also sound very angry in your posts.

Just for the record Unhappy1, I think you were very brave and I am so very sorry for the outcome. You cared enough to instigate proceedings, did what you thought was right and that pain is now added to the loss of your GC. This is so very sad. If you had the chance to begin the case,what would you do differently? Is there anything to learn or reflect on from your experience?

I feel for the OP. This thread has turned into a whole gamut of justification and horrendous stories of extreme cases of estrangement. The OP only wanted to know if anyone had been successful. I would suggest a Freedom of Information request to your local family court to find out. It's awful that so many posters have used this post to just bang their drum. Not all GP who have been estranged are entirely at fault for this.

And a reason to deny children their GP's!!!

Yes I did Hithere but surely even you wouldn't concede that a d.i.l. being jealous of her husband's relationship with his mother is grounds for estrangement!!!

Smileless,
Didn't you write in another thread that your dil and es said something about being a mamma's boy and you said that it is apparently a problem for some dils?

We didn't go to court because we didn't think it was in the best interests of our GC. It makes no difference to me if we had, and regardless of the outcome, whether or not it would have meant there could never be reconciliation with our ES, because I don't want one.

Estranging AC have the power to cut their parents out of their lives and deny them their GC, but don't think you have the power to taint the rest of our lives with your bitterness an anger, because you don't.

Reading some of the posts here from estranging AC, I'm thankful that we're out of it, and for those who are still suffering because of their AC's cruelty, I hope that one day they'll be thankful to be out of it too.

My ES has never told me what the problem was Hithere either in full or in part and I've never said that he has so I don't know where you got that from.

He's told lies which leaves us to conclude that there never were justifiable reasons for our estrangement or he wouldn't have needed to fabricate some.

I do hold our ES ultimately responsible for our estrangement and have said so many times here on GN. His wife was behind it but he went along with it, upholding her lies until eventually coming out with his own.

Same old, same old. So much anger and bitterness from those of you who have estranged your parents and your children's grand parents.

You talk about power and control, ironic when it's your power and your control that takes these GC away from their GP's.

You're right Unhappy there are GP and P haters here who come out with the same old rhetoric and portray all EP's and EGP's as the ones who are in the wrong, and what's very revealing is that the majority are those who instigated the estrangement.

So what's your problem? You got what you wanted, you haven't been forced make your children see their GP's have you?

Our DS says about his brother that even now, after more than 6.5 years he can't talk to him about it because he's so angry. Well he just has to get on with it doesn't he. We've moved on, re built our lives and are happy.

Maybe that's what makes him and some of you angry, that despite the pain we've been through, we are happy. No doubt we'd have been happier if this hadn't happened but it has and we are.

Is that what makes some of you so angry?

Sueing for contact does not assess the parents fitness anyway. Its an entirely separate process.

Twentytwenty, I suppose the difference is some people feel the children are genuinely harmed by not having grandparents in their lives.
I tend to think that those people actually mean they are “harmed” by not having the grandchildren. But they use the controlling parent excuse.

Rarely do they blame their own child though, as that would be admitting failure in raising them to obey. Instead in the spouses fault.

OP says: It is a personal decision to go to court..there's no right or wrong.

So, herein lies the problem with someone, as mentioned before that just wants to win.

The parents of the child believe you're wrong.

Many of us that have controlling 'you must obey us! parents" believe that you're wrong.

...and, thankfully the court believes you're wrong.

You have also likely destroyed any last possible chances of ever getting to a reconciliation with your estranged child by attempting to make them obey you through the court. Do the GPS consider this is in almost all cases the last straw.

Control, obey! You must obey us! I'll never quit until you accept my terms!

If you really think any harm at all is coming to your GCs, why not try and take custody?

IF a child is being harmed by his parents, then take custody! End the harm!

IF not, then step off

I know how to parent my child. GPs don't.

Anyway, a village is a unit. Estranged adults are not a unit.

A child going between court orders isnt so much being raised by a village as being raised by warring states!

Smileless -

" it takes a village to raise a child"

As a parent, I pick my village that is good for my family - daycare, doctors, friends, etc,
The village does not pick itself and I have to accept it no matter what

Re: family legacy.
I think we have a different point of view.
By going NC or limiting communication with someone, i am teaching my kid that they do not have to be doormat and they have the right to listen to their instics about people and environment they live in. Having DNA links with someone cannot an excuse for bad behaviour.

It is not true that you just cut contact without any earning, explanations, etc.
Personally, as estranged from my parents, I tried to communicate my issues with them, negotiate, set up boundaries, talk to them again when they broke my boundaries (for example, don't infantalize me, we dont have to be joined at the hip 24/7, i cannot answer your call to say hi during business hours, no means no, please do not insist, etc), try to make boundaries work, broke again.... this cycle lasted DECADES.
If my parents are not willing to work with me in having a mutual respectful relationship, I cannot make it work just by myself. They wasted so many chances that they never appreciated

The previous generation was elder centric, now we are immediate family centric.

Your own ES told you what the problem was or part of it -he communicated with you- so the pattern you wrote in your post does not even match what happened in your case

The bias prevents meaningful discussion doesn't it.

Quite! Those who see court as about the GPs Vs ACs dont want to talk about how awful a court order is for the child

Or the reality of contact centres etc if the case is "won"

Or how court ordered contact doesnt actually undo an estrangement. It will never replicate a normal GP/GC relationship

GPs and Parents are both adults
Its not about them
Its about the child

You were fortunate that you had aunts and uncles from your deceased GP's side notanan. Our ES has limited contact with our DS, the only uncle our EGC do know, and no contact with a large group of aunts, uncles and cousins as well as two GGM's, due to their parents estrangement.

And what if they all went to court?
How many pieces is it okay to have the child chopped into?

The person who instigates court proceedinga is 100% responsible for the damaging effects of court proceedings even if they are not respobsible for the origional estrangement. It is a choice. A choice that IMO the faltless in an estrangement would never chose!

(including unsucessful ones, OP you will have created a lot of stress and potentially financial stran, in your GCs household which will have adversely affected the child, even if you didnt win!)

Its like that fable where 2 women claimed to be a childs mother. In order to find out the true mother the ruler said "cut the child in half and share it". The woman who said "no! SHE is the mother" was found to be the true mother because she is the one who would rather not have the child than have it cut in half.

No decent GP would want the GC under a court order.
It is taking food out of their mouth
It is bringing stress upon their house
And it is pulling the child into pieces.

Precisely Summerlove "The parent will pass on what they want a child to know" doesn't have to be the truth, just what the parent wants them to know.

Doesnt matter, thats still the parents role! And "too many cooks" thinking its their role just unsettles the child.

Some parents teach it well some parents teach it not so well, but it is for the parents to decide how and when its taught!

GP are not immediate family. They are relatives It is nice to know them if they are nice, but their role is not parental (unless they have guardianship or fostered) and it is not their place to decide how the child learns about things like religion, politics, sex etc (all of which form part of ones cultural heritage).

I do wonder why when EP's and EGP's see posts from estranging AC who clearly did the right thing, they are able to be both sympathetic and supportive where on the other hand, so many non estranged P's and GP's see no wrong in the unjustified and cruel treatment that many of us are subjected too.

Who on this whole long thread said that estrangement is good, or always the GPs fault? Nobody!
What has been said is that it doesnt matter who is at fault origionally, a court process still does the child harm

2 wrongs dont make a right.

GPs on here who think that if they see the parents as being in the wrong, that justifies putting the child and their immediate family through thr court process, care more about "winning" against the parents than they do about the welfare of the child.

Nobody said "yeah but estrangement is ace" or "its always the grandparents fault" because it who is at fault does not alter the DAMAGE of the court process on the child.

I started this thread..to hopefully hear good news about someone who had been successful in court. It is a personal desicion to go to court..there's no right or wrong.
Unfortunately...there seems to be a lot of granny haters put there...with some outlooks I am shocked and insulted by...
Until you've walked a mile in my shoes...don't judge.
At 71 I now face the thought of never seeing my grandson....and yes he has lost part of his family.
So to all those who offered me some comfort..I thank you...and to the others I suppose you can take comfort in the fact I lost my case...but you know what...I would do it all again....good fortune all..

Where did I say that one set set of GP's were the whole side of a child's family? I said "when parents estrange one set of GP's and the entire side of one family, the children don't have access to both sides".

You were fortunate that you had aunts and uncles from your deceased GP's side notanan. Our ES has limited contact with our DS, the only uncle our EGC do know, and no contact with a large group of aunts, uncles and cousins as well as two GGM's, due to their parents estrangement.

Precisely Summerlove "The parent will pass on what they want a child to know" doesn't have to be the truth, just what the parent wants them to know.

"What if what the parents tell the kids doesn't match what the gp say". What a ridiculous question Hithere. As children and adults, we had conflicting stories about family events and family history depending on who was telling us at the time. Or do you think that all families have regular conferences to ensure that there is no variation whatsoever in the content of information that GC will receive.

As for GP's not being responsible for "making sure the whole family picture is complete" of course they're not. Haven't you ever heard of the saying that it takes a village to raise a child? Do you really believe that parents who deny their children certain relatives are going to be willing to "communicate the family legacy"?

What they are communicating by their own actions is a legacy that there's no need to talk about your problems and/or issues, there's no need to communicate and seek to resolve, all you need to do is walk away, sever all contact and never see that person or those people, regardless of the nature of their relationship, ever again.

What they are risking is their own children continuing their legacy of going no contact with their own parents.

Thanks Namsnanny. The bias prevents meaningful discussion doesn't it. I do wonder why when EP's and EGP's see posts from estranging AC who clearly did the right thing, they are able to be both sympathetic and supportive where on the other hand, so many non estranged P's and GP's see no wrong in the unjustified and cruel treatment that many of us are subjected too.

Would they see their role in their GC's lives as superfluous if they were suddenly cut out as we have been.

Smileless…..Your post makes so much sense.
Fleshed out with real examples.
Not made up of bias generalisations, e.g... 50% of..... most ….. I'm sure Doria is a fantastic gm. ect.

I wasn't going to bother, but I'm glad I popped in to read it. .