Child arrangement court order

Today is an action day regarding the rights of GP's to see their GC. There was to be a meeting at the Palace of Westminster called Broken Bonds: The Plight of Children Estranged from Their Grandparents.

The aim is to ensure legislation implements what the EU Court of Justice ruled in May, that "grandparents have a legal right to see their grandchildren". "The right of access refers also to....other persons with whom it is important for the child to maintain a relationship.

We'll have to wait and see what, if anything can be done to assist those GP's who wish to pursue the relationship they once had with their GC through the courts, as they've been left with no other alternative.

At least some recognise the importance of the GP/GC relationship even if some parents are unable to do so.

The point is that the "estrangement" is the termination of the relationship, abusive or otherwise. Its like divorce in that way Estrangement is not a form of abuse. Just because a person is upset by it, doesnt make it abuse.

I am wondering how you know "it is common?" there are plenty of statistics on it. Lots.

I think it would more hide that a person was abusive if they have a physical and emotional response to estrangement. It would clearly fool people into thinking that they had done nothing wrong, because I would guess a lot of people would expect no response from someone who is abusive, or maybe a purely angry response?

The thing is that abusers are attached to their victims, they rely on them to be an emotional or literal punchbag so that they can maintain a facade in other areas of their lives. So yes an abusive person could appear just as devastated as a non abusive person. Just for very very different reasons.

Another sensible post Madgran good to read another voice of reason.

It is common for abusive controlling people to have a huge physical and mental/emotional response when the person they abuse finally walks away.

notanan I accept that you may or may not have meant this to refer directly to Smileless reference to what happened to her husband. However I can also see how it could be interpreted as a reference to that coming pretty quickly after her post describing that

I am wondering how you know "it is common?" A human reaction to any emotional trauma can be physical and mental; I have experienced that myself to a traumatic situation (nothing to do with estrangement or even my family!) So the fact that an AC or GP who has been estranged by someone has a physical/emotional response does not I suspect lead others to assume that that person has been abusive/controlling! So I am not really sure what your point was in this context?

Thank you for your comments Summerlove.

Oh I don't have an account there. I only joined here to answer one post and that lady has now left. Then I stayed out of curiosity

Lost Mumsnet is referred to sometime as 'the other place'. Who has lumped you in with them?

Namsnanny Wed 04-Sep-19 15:40:24 excellent post.

Summerlove Wed 04-Sep-19 16:22:29 I don't understand your sense of humour, please explain?

notanan2 Is it sad that not one iota of your posts shows sympathy or understanding of how you have made smile feel. I think you must be American because of your spelling and perhaps that is the way Americans behave and we in the UK don't understand such aggression. It is less important which of you is right or wrong, surely a little empathy would go a long way?

namsnanny. I will agree that a child’s welfare should come first. Sometimes that means a parent should allow a grandparent to see the child despite disagreements, and sometimes that means a grandparent needs to give up on a grandchild due to disagreements. Each situation is different and each one is unique.

Summerlove
Ikr

Unfortunately there seem to be some here who have come on just to show their hatred of people they know and are not open-minded enough to see that there are other points of view. Please don't let them upset you, they are so narrow minded and blinkered you should take no notice.

The absolute irony of this is hilarious

Notanan...it’s just a suggestion on my part, but maybe a re look at the bias in you choice of language maybe helpful at this point?
No insult intended by using the word bias, but at no point can you be accused of ambiguity!

You must agree that you spend a lot of your time and energy engaged in this topic.
Presumably that means you are invested in it too?

I think an unwillingness to concede ‘points’ impairs serious discussion, and promotes personal differences.

Surely it can be agreed that the welfare of the children comes first, with the object of building a cohesive happy family unit around them?

Therefore Both P and Gp’s need to step up and assume an emotionally mature attitude.

All the issues surrounding dominance and control, only succeed in weakening the child’s healthy perspective of how to accept and give love to ALL members of the family, as a child and when they try to build a family of their own as adults!?

I think some will never see anything useful in what I have said, but I had thought you might be above that.

I also feel forced to point out that if I had any suspicion or knowledge of child abuse, historic or otherwise, I would not jeopardise any potential court case by posting about it on GN (or elsewhere) and would instead alert the authorities.

Hopefully that clears things up until GN can come along "clean up" the mess and hopefully delete the lot of it just leaving the non personal stuff

Smileless has actually accused me of libel: I made no accusations about her DH commiting child abuse!. It is a serious accusation against me and I do think a line was crossed and have asked GN to intervene.

So while I will end my engagement with her! I will defend myself.

It is bullying of the worst degree to make false accusations of legal offenses against anther poster just because you see yourself as "opposing sides" (even though I do not see it like that)

For the record: I do not know who Smileless's husband is! I do not know who Smileless is! I know nothing about theor identities or whether or not anyone in their family is guilty of child abuse!

That applies to you also hithere, as you have decided to comment.
Btw, where and when did you get your phd in psychiatry?

Namsnanny the childishness of making this general discussion personal in this instance is all Smileless and not me.

When I have discussed Smileless's personal situation on another recent thread she has had my agreement and sympathy. And on this thread, my personal comments directed at Smileness's personal situation have been to comment that she has put her GCs welfare above the adult politics re her decision to not go to court!

Yet she is determined to see me as her enemy and I cant convince her otherwise so it doesnt do me, her, or fellow posters to continue to engage with her re a fantasical scenario that doesnt actually exist! I said nothing even tenuously related to there being child abuse in her family!

I will engage with other posters on this issue in so much as to defend myself against smileless's personal accusations aimed at me, but I hope it all dies down soon and the threat can get back to the topic.

Nonnie

Lost child.. I’m not ignoring your posts, just moving on for a while.
I hope you find some clarification and help on gn.

Notanan2 did not make any personal statements.

If anybody feels they apply to her/him, he/she should examine why they hit so close to home.

Notanan....

No one is apoplectic. Smiles asked you to stand up for your comments or apologise for them-quite a reasonable request.

whats the point (in engaging)?
You write. Then go on to Engage over and over.....but not, I note with smileless!
That is a tactic used over and over on the estrangement threads.
Snipe from the sidelines, then deny culpability.

It takes a big person to state their case without resorting to childish behaviour, and a courageous one to re evaluate and if necessary apologise.

I really cant imagine how anyone read that and saw it as an adult:child scenario I re read it and still think its clearly about adult relationships!

I can only suppose that its a snow queen scenario: like the boy with the ugly glass in his eye who sees everything in an uglier way.

It was clear to me it wasn't personal.

..... with other adults!

For other posters, go back and read that whole page in context not just the little bit smileless plucked out and twisted and made ugly.

Smileless said estrangement is a form of abuse
I said estrangement isnt a form of abuse in the same way that divorce isnt a form of abuse.

Whilst discussing divorce one of the scenarios I refered to was when an abuser is divorced and blames the partner for "making them" spiral downwards after the divorce as one of the examples of how whatever a divorced person feels or says they feel after a divorce, the divorce itself is not "abuse"

If my desctiption of an abuser felt familiar to Smileless, think about it: how on earth would I know that she would recognise her husband in that post? It was nothing to do with "abused children" for a start it was about adults ending an abusive relationship!

Come over from what other place? Who am I being lumped in with?

notanan's post was too closely linked to mine for it to have been a general statement. If she did not intend it to have the affect on me that it did, only she can say so.

Whats the point? If people disagreeing you makes you so apoplectic there's no point in engaging! I could say "I like pretty flowers" and you would claim I said "Im going to find out where smileless lives and kill her cat"