The reasons

Yes that is interesting Razzmatazz, maybe one day I'll have the opportunity to share that with our ES.

It is easier to blame someone else/be in denial than to look inside at yourself and admit you're weak.

I've spoken to a lot of estranged children recently who are desperate for a mum. Something has gone horribly wrong somewhere and pride seems to be a ot of it. If EPs can't share the reasons they were given, how can we possibly facilitate a happy ending for anyone?

We can't, not for the estranging AC whose parents wont listed or for the EP's whose AC wont listen either. I guess some people just don't want a happy ending.

EP = elderly parents?

Estranged parents Joyfulnanna

Thanks for the clarification Smileless. X

Razzmatazz123 -- I don't think this post got enough attention and I agree with you given the comments and tone of certain newer posts.

When those that identify as EP's or EGP's are asked, "What reasons (whether you agree or not) were given in e-mails/texts in person etc.?" the answer is how they interpreted/felt about those messages, not the actual content.

When questioned further or it is pointed out to EP's how their actions are likely being interpreted by their estranged off-spring (because some of Us have been there) our comments are ignored/dismissed/minimized regardless of our age and personal background etc.

You asked, "I wonder if that is how you can tell the abusive parents who have been estranged for good reason from the parents who have been cut off unfairly." The answer from me is, yes.

My personal experience of estrangement, is if you decide to cut yourself off from someone, draw a line under it and move in.

I stopped having any contact with my mother many years ago. I don’t want to discuss it, I don’t want to hear her side of things, and I don’t want to put my views forward.

I know she would deny everything I said, because I’m fairly sure, she thinks she’s never done anything wrong, and in a way she hasn’t, there are more ways to be unkind to your children than being violent or neglectful.

I can’t see any point in trying to get answers, just accept that the relationship doesn’t work and get in with your life.

I wrote a very long letter with my reasons. NM refused to read it for a long time and then eventually contacted me disputing the one of many I may possibly have wrong. I actually don't know if I am wrong, she gets into my head. It's very frustrating when you get contact from them and third parties saying they don't understand why when you have clearly told them

I think when you have had a lifetime of a parent who makes you feel worthless and unheard, refusing to listen to your pain is the ultimate betrayel and I can see why some abused ECs don't bother because they know it's pointless

Starblaze

That’s why it’s best to make a clean break, memories are never 100% reliable, there’s no point in arguing over things you can never prove either way.

I know Sara 65. I think it's because my mistakes always stand out to me so strongly. I will remember a stupid thing I said 3 years ago and will apologise given the chance and still have it on the list of things that keep me awake at 3am

I think you’re right Sara65 - there comes a point when either side needs to say enough, no more.

All the talking in the world won’t remedy things unless there’s good will on both sides. Your own peace of mind is all you can manage - others will have to do likewise.

HolyHannah* EP's/GP's are unlikely to give the actual content of messages received from EAC in order to protect their identity.

Over the years I have been quite open, something that used to concern Mr. S. as he felt that anyone who knew us, would know it's me. That's never been an issue for me as I've never posted anything other than the truth or anything that I wouldn't prepared to say to our ES if we were face to face. Not everyone feels that way though.

I completely disagree that if ever and EP is given a different perspective and/or alternative point of view, that those "comments are ignored/dismissed/minimized". Of course that happens from time to time and it's also the case sometimes that EP's feel what they are posting is being treated in the same way.

I agree Pantglas whether you are an estranging AC or the parent whose been estranged, there does indeed come a point when you need to walk away.

Smileless - Your interpretation/perception of my comment is so far away from my meaning I don't know what to say.

Me suggesting to an EP/EGP that only focusing on how the communication made them feel (probably badly) instead of the actual content = I expect people to supply potential personal details? That's a huge and incorrect leap.

I stated/believe that people who identify as EC's comments here are ignored/dismissed/minimized and you AGREE, "Of course that happens from time to time..." and then you add the BUT, "and it's also the case sometimes that EP's feel what they are posting is being treated in the same way."

There it is... My 'mom' would scream about mean I am being to her now by denying her a relationship with me and the family I built. She was mean/abused ME FIRST so how is my reaction to her abuse, going No Contact = to the abuse she subjected me to? Or do you think/consider me (when I was a minor/child) as an equal in my relationship with my parents? Children are 100% dependent on their carers which means they have zero percent influence on how those caretakers/parents treat them. NONE.

So when us helpless kids grow up and get tired of the abuse and our 'parents' acting like our reaction to their abuse IS equal 'abuse' we often try to convey that via messages. Those horrible, "hate filled" and "emotionally devastating" letters that because abusers cannot face the pain and hurt they caused, to those they claim to love, is too much and they break down.

My 'mom'/'family' broke Me first. I CAN understand her pain of being rejected because of the pain she caused ME. When will she and other EP's get that the pain you are feeling NOW is because of the pain YOU inflicted prior?

What part of, your actions THEN have consequences NOW, do some people not understand?

I struggled throughout my childhood with a mother who was scornful and negative.

I was in my 40s before I ever heard a compliment from her and even that was in respnse to someone else's' 'You must be so proud of your daughter' (for setting up, single handed, an international sculpture exhibition.)
When she agreed she was I almost fell over from shock.

Why hadn't she ever told me my achievements had pleased her? Why always put me down?

And of coourse I was far too fat to be loved.

My mother ruined all my milstone events, including my wedding day and later, when I tried to find out why, she absolutely denied the whole list and accuse me of imagining it all.

I realised then that some people live in a sort of parallel universe where they do exactly what they want and think this is just fine, so cannot see how it hurts others and when its pointed out, deny it because to them it doesn't exist!

I never cut my mother off but I did move down country - some years later she followed me!

Then I came back to New Zealand and within 3 years, she'd sold up in the UK and applied to join us.

She was lonely of course and knew my much tougher sister wanted nothing to do with her, unless it was to systematically bleed her of money. Which I guess was my sibling's way of getting revenge on Mum.

It's all so sad, these broken families. No family is perfect I know, my mother in law used to say just let everything go over your head, just keep your distance for a while, no point falling out. At the time, I used to secretly think no way. Now I think she had a point, not for abuse either mental or physical of course, but sometimes a minor incident snowballs out of recognition and it's difficult to sort.

No family is perfect I know, my mother in law used to say just let everything go over your head, just keep your distance for a while, no point falling out.

Very wise words, Peonyrose

My Grandma always told me to choose my battles. I was a hothead when younger and could have fallen out with everyone in the family at times!

But I chose my battles.

Oh my gosh Peonyrose and Oopsminty. Now imagine saying that to a small child who feels unloved and is being neglected.

I wonder what would happen if we all took the Queen's view of 'never explain, never apologise'. I seem to do a lot of explaining and apologising.

Hurtful, selfish behaviour over and over again that you just take because you 'don't want to rock the boat'

Yup recognise that one. As I am sure do many other GPs and ACs. Members of both "groups" have experienced that...

I agree Madgran the child/AC who has learned to say nothing and not react for fear of repercussions, and some P's?Gp,s who walk on eggshells and keep their opinions and thoughts to themselves, for the same reason.

I agree Peonyrose and Oopsminty; take a deep breath, count to 10 and if that doesn't work leave asap and as diplomatically as possible.

BradfordlassI hope that your mum saw you for the lovely daughter you are, even if she never told you so.

that should have been 'P's/GP's.

Sorry Razzmatazz, you said she * became a GGP *, but wasn’t she one already to your GC? We tried on and off for 25 years with my MIL, she just denied there was a problem. Don’t waste any more time on it, enjoy your children and GC.