*SUPPORT* for all who are living with estrangement

And have a great time next Monday!

Yogagirl ...Such lovely news about your reconciliation. So happy for you.
PF ...congratulations on the birth of your gd. Good luck to all of you
Hugshelp ….what you say about true friends telling us the truth we don't want to hear, is so important.
Smileless such a beautiful poem, I'm so glad you had a nice Christmas Day. Even with the wobble.
Rhinestone ...I'm glad to hear you are planning on caring for yourself a little more. It's a hard lesson to learn, but taking care of ourselves means we can be more useful to others, so win win!
SparklyGranma ...you spoke the truth when you said life is always going to be like this (unexpected panic attacks) from now on. I'm glad you pointed it out, because all is changed now.
ThankyouMadGran … for your kind thoughts
Pantglas … I love your overview of how to move forward within the new relationship. You're right the bigger picture should be the focus.

Wishing you all kindness, thoughtfulness, peace and calm over the Christmas season.

Smileless and others, thank you for your good wishes on DGD2. The birth was actually very traumatic and it is very fortunate that both she and DGD are alive and well. A Christmas miracle, in fact.

Yoga, thank you for replying to me. I know the song 'Grenade' very well, have listened to it a great deal and have even quoted it on here - 'I gave you all I had and you tossed it in the trash' - because that's how it feels, doesn't it?

Sometimes, I think that the more you give to someone, the more they expect, and the less respect they have for you. In the same way as when someone is ill or depressed or troubled, or simply having a bad day, they snap at and take it out on those closest to them - because they can and know that they will be forgiven. Basically, they take our love for granted and, even worse, can sometimes use it to exercise power over us and engage in emotional blackmail, just as they did when they were toddlers.

Yoga, I was very interested in your DS's realisation that his treatment of you stemmed from a lack of maturity. I do think that because our DC assume adult forms, sometimes we credit them with more maturity than they actually have. Maybe the thing to do is to stand back and detach, to treat them accordingly, to give firm but loving boundaries. Be there for them, keep the door open, but do not chase them - let them come to you, which I believe they will, in time, provided that the relationship was sound before the estrangement. To do otherwise is actually to diminish the relationship and ourselves, as we lose our own self confidence and self-respect. And I think that, at the heart of a lot of these very sad stories, the basic problem is one of respect. There may be an element of brainwashing, as Yoga rightly says, but I also could never have treated my parents as DD has treated me.

Thank you also hugs for your usual insight and perception. One of the most hurtful things DD said to me is that 'SIL (then boyfriend) is my family now', which cut very deeply. In other words, that you are now surplus to requirements. But turning this round and looking at it in a more positive way, perhaps we are surplus for a while, as they mature and grow. If we have done our job as parents well, they have the confidence to move away and find themselves. As you so rightly say, hugs, true family and friends are those who care enough about us to not just say what we want to hear, but to say what they really think - albeit in a gentle and tactful way - even if that challenges us. But, in the short term, our DC may prefer to surround themselves with people who simply agree with them and, therefore, seem to 'get' them.

Pantglas, I am so pleased that you are back, as you tell it how it really is, and that the road to reconciliation can be rocky, that the relationship may never be what it was, or what you would have liked it to be, but that it can be good enough.

Rhinestone, I think you are absolutely right to put yourself and your health first. That is what we should all strive to do, pining and despair takes up too much headspace and stress can have a terrible effect on the body. Look after yourself for you, and also for those others in your life, from whom you are not estranged, but who love you, and care for you, and need you.

Christmas, both the good bits and the bad bits (and even most happy families will have some bad bits!) is now largely over, and we will soon be welcoming a new year. I hope and pray and genuinely believe that we will be reading here of more reconciliations during 2020.

Namsnanny, thank you and wishing you all kindness, thoughtfulness, peace and calm over the Christmas season right back.

I love the way you reframed that PF - maybe they need to go away and find themselves. We can only hope that is so and that they do in time. I guess some people tire of eating endless candy and want to go back to something more nutritious when they have had their fill, they recognise that only getting what they want becomes empty after a while. While others may go on and on trying to find what they want and missing the mark. We can only wish for our loved ones that they eventually become people who look deeper and find something meaningful there that allows them to more forward to a better place, and we can only hope that place might have room for us one day.

Hugshelp ... at the moment I've no room for hope.
I'm going through that awful phase of both blaming myself and simultaneously feeling hurt that my own flesh and blood would be so unkind.
Doesn't help that my mother is cruel and loves using my children against me, by lying to them about me. Apparently I'm suffering from dementia, according to her latest bulletin.
I've noticed over the years as soon as she feels she's loosing control she starts attacking a person's sanity ( oh so and so is cracking up) she did it with her mother, sister, brother all the neighbor's she fell out with and my father. Now it's my turn.
Never ceases to amaze me how many times she's done it and no one notices.

I've never encouraged my children to stop visiting her, and only told them the bare minimum about her behaviour towards me (I'm the scapegoat, brother is the golden child).
Because well how do you explain narcissistic behaviour to those who don't suffer it?
The perpetrator takes pleasure in hurting and isolating their victim in plain sight.
It's difficult to point this out without looking 'over sensitive' ( think of Marg in the talented mr Ripley. Everyone thought she was being emotionally deranged when only she knew the truth).

So I did my best to allow them to come to their own conclusions.
As a strategy it has backfired somewhat, because it would seem one of my children has judged me to be less than perfect, and rejected me by going NC.
I will never know if something my mother said or did encouraged this to happen.

The things I've been accused of and know about just didn't happen.
I don't like to say they are lying, but others can in some cases qualify to the truth.
So I don't rightly know what's going on on my ACs mind, or where it comes from

One AC supports me whilst trying to keep contact with all the family, the others are keeping a low profile with myself and the EAC.

I can see the sense in this but I suffer from nerves when they visit in case I do something to make the situation worse.
Then I feel more isolated.

I'm taking up too much of your time whittering on about this. Probably because I felt I couldn't let christmas go without visiting my mother, only to be hurt by her barbs.
Why don't I learn ?

Sorry for the moaning session.
Thanks for being here

A survey has been done whereby people were asked if they could press a button to cancel Christmas, would they? 63% pressed yes. So there you go, many people would rather not 'have it'. My husband and I both feel we would be happier without it too. Too much pressure to be happy. Very easy to be happy when you are but torment to pretend to do if you are not. Best part of Christmas Day for us was watching Emmerdale and Coronation Street! Really enjoyed them both!! Thank goodness for the soaps!!!!!

No need to apologise Namsnanny, this is what this thread is for.

I'm so sorry that your mother has hurt you again, and as much as I admire you for visiting her despite knowing that this is what she would do, maybe you should seriously think about staying away from her.

Don't spend the rest of your being her victim. The only way to win the cruel games that narcissists play, is to stop playing. Walk away and leave them to it.

You did the right thing allowing your children to come to their own conclusions. You say it has "backfired somewhat" but what really matters, the only thing that does matter, is you did the right thing.

There's nothing we an do to change those who wont, or can't.

love0c … I can quite see why that would be the case! I still love aspects of it though.

loveOc Christmas day was OK, yesterday better and today better still.

We make the best of it, decorate the house and of course we had Mr. S's. reindeer which I suspect could be seen from outer space, but like you and your DH, we'd be happier without it.

I stopped watching the soaps some years ago but there's something to be said for watching their Christmas, which is always far worse than our own.

As for us, 'thank goodness for Netflix'.

Ha ha Smileless, that is exactly what me and hubby said. 'And we thought we were having a bad day!!'

In theory Christmas Day should have been enjoyed by us really. Nice sunny day and a lovely walk in a really pretty area. Just felt really lonely and unwanted all day. However we had lots of people say hello and Happy Christmas to us. Including the 'Brownlee Brothers'. In some ways it made me feel more lonely as we felt we were relying on total strangers to wish us a Happy Christmas.

"just felt really lonely and unwanted all day" I felt like that when I had my wobble loveOc. Maybe I should watch all the soaps next December 25th.

Moan as much as you like Namsnanny - at least this is one place where you can. I totally get the blaming yourself while feeling so hurt they are being so unkind thing. I often end up going round in a circle where I decide the reason they are unkind is because I wasn't a good enough mother to teach them to be kind. But then I remember nobody taught me to be kind, my parents were a nightmare (and it seems your mum can behave very badly) and yet somehow we do want to at least try to be kind. I sometimes think 'kindness' has gone out of fashion.

I too would very happily cancel Christmas but DH and DD seem to love it, and I do love them, so... I did find it easier than the last two though, I think because I was busier mostly. I cooked and baked enough for an army for 3 of us, so Christmas food till new Year then lol.
I've stopped watching the soaps too but will put mindless reality stuff on while knitting. I find colouring can make me feel a bit more relaxed too.

PF, just realize that your new GD was born! How wonderful! Congratulations to all!

I'm so sorry to hear that Xmas was so difficult for some of you. And Namsnanny, I'm sorry that visiting your mum backfired. It was so kind and loving of you, but I agree with Smileless that you might do better to stay away from her for a while. I also agree that you did the right thing where your AC are concerned. IMO< there's never any guarantee as to how children will react to estrangement over time. If you had tried to turn your kids against your mum, one of them might have rebelled at some point and turned completely the other way. IOWs, you may have had differences w/ one of them over this issue, anyhow. As Smileless says, the important thing is you did the right thing. It seems to me there is a lot of conflict in your family and there has been for a long time. IMO, right now, you need to focus on you and your wellbeing and not worry about anyone else' opinions, etc.

Best wishes for a good 2020, everyone!

Namsnanny most of us have been through what you describe as self blame, joined with hurt. We are near to listen, sympathise and support others who like us are estranged.

I read somewhere else about estrangement caused by Alienation.Interesting.

Anyway survived Christmas with one little wobble. How is anyone who feels able or strong enough to say?

We're getting organised for our trip to Aus. to see our DS for 3 wonderful weeks. This time next week we'll be on the plane and on our way.

Like you Sparkly we survived with just one wobble from me Christmas day afternoon which I kept hidden from Mr. S.

TBH I'm glad it's over, we've had a nice time but it was harder this year.

We're getting organised for our trip to Aus. to see our DS for 3 wonderful weeks. This time next week we'll be on the plane and on our way.

How exciting Smileless. Sorry Christmas was harder this year but so good that you now have something lovely to look forward to

It's all I can think about Madgran. The best bit is walking into arrivals and seeing him there; I get tears in my eyes just thinking about it.

We're taking him away for a week to Margaret River so he gets a holiday too which he's really looking forward too. He's a terrific cook so 3 weeks for me without cooking a meal.

It's just lovely to hear him call out "mum"; I really miss that, miss that more than anything.

I am sure you do. I totally understand the arrivals hall bit ...it was a regular occurrence for me as a child, and I can still remember the unbelievable excitement at arrival hall reunions! Tears in my eyes when I remember them! X

That's wonderful Smileless, so lovely that you have something to look forward to and you deserve every ounce of happiness.

That really is something to look forward to smileless - I'm excited for you.

You just have to look around and see that you're not the only one with tears of joy Madgran, in fact 'there wasn't a dry eye in the house' is rather apt.

Thank you PF and hugshelp.

'Happy New Year' dear friends, I hope you're all doing something this evening that you'll enjoy.

We're going out for a Chinese with 'our girls' from next door then back to ours for champers to see in the New Year. We'll be able to watch the fire works from our roof terrace with a glass in hand.

There are 2 packed cases in one of the spare bedrooms already for Monday. Can hardly wait.

Let's hope 2020 brings us all some peace and joy.

That sounds like a really nice evening Smileless. Just hubby and me I'm afraid this evening. Just seen our eldest son off with two grandchildren. Really quiet now. So wish we had somewhere to go to tonight to celebrate! Enjoy your evening!!!