AEC thread. Feel free to chat or add helpful resources here.

Madgran -- It's one of those things I learned early, it's not what You teach your children... It's what THEY teach You. You just have to "listen".

The connection was pretty funny and it allowed Us all to open a dialogue about what family is, why bullying is "bad" and a few other "life-lesson" type things. A learning moment with comedy....

A learning moment with comedy....

Often the best ones!

On grieving the mother we deserved

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/tech-support/201703/daughters-unloving-mothers-mourning-the-mom-you-deserved

Starblaze -- Some of the comments are very interesting for that article. It's interesting she too gets accused of being "bitter and angry"... It's a rather common theme.

"Seriel killers are humans too because they aren't elephants"

Made me spit my tea. Must remember that one.

Peg Streep is an amazing resource people tend to find after they have problems. She is not responsible for ucausing any problems, just for helping people fix them.

She is not so the right resource for anyone who didn't grow up with an abusive mother, complaining that she exists is angry and bitter

Starblaze -- The comment of, "Remember she's human as well." Yes... If mine was 'human' she could have tried acting like it and show a little humanity... Just a thought.

torontosun.com/life/relationships/ask-amy-family-survivor-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-it

An interesting take on talking about estrangement...

Hello, are there coping resources I can share with my husband who has recently estranged from his parents? He seems to be doing well for the most part but the other day he spoke to me about all of the milestones in the future that he’d imagined them to be a part of and I realized that he is still struggling with the fallout from his decision. How can I help?

I found this book very helpful www.amazon.com.au/Toxic-Parents-Susan-Forward/dp/0553381407?tag=gransnetforum-21

I also think that what we have a hard time with is what we imaged our parents would be. The milestones that he imagines his parents are a part of, is he imagining his parents or what he would like his parents to be. The hardest part was realising that my parents were never going to be loving and supportive

Thank you @Ironflower, I will pass along the recommendation!

Yes, I think he imagined one big happy family, which included an idealized version of his mother... the mother he thought he had for many years before their relationship was tested. His parents were definitely loving and supportive of him in the past so I think he’s stuck wishing things could go back to the way they were, while knowing it’s impossible.

I’ve suggested he do some virtual therapy as well and I believe he has an appointment later next week to speak with someone.

Amelia247 This must be hard for you too supporting him; it is good that he has you for support and understanding of his decision

@Amelia
Try this video too. I'm not sure of your story but this is about toxic parents. My parents were also 'good' while I did what they wanted and was the person that they wanted. Once I started to become independent, THAT was when a lot of trouble started
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd6RB61JgVU&t=1s

@ironflower Very informative - thank you!

Amelia there are some great resources at the beginning of this thread. I think validation is key when you have had parents who have messed up your head. Validation that feelings are OK and understandable and grieving is important.

Its lovely that you care for him enough to look for ways to help

@starblaze - thank you, I’m taking note of those resources as well!

While this article is not about estrangement I thought it had a very relevant point to be shared:

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/staying-sane-inside-insanity/202008/your-partner-isnt-sure-they-want-relationship-you

"2. Sometimes you have to make clear what you can and cannot accept.

Ultimatums have gotten a reputation of being akin to bullying, manipulating, or otherwise strong-arming someone into bending to your will.

Ambivalent partners often feel victimized when faced with an ultimatum. They don’t want to want to be pressured to change the status quo and to risk either stepping up or losing the relationship. But often that’s precisely what needs to happen.

Everyone should have a bottom line regarding what they want from a partner in a relationship. If you communicate your wants and your partner ignores them or can’t meet them, you should leave. Honoring what’s non-negotiable for you is the cornerstone of healthy self-esteem.

A long-married couple I know likes to tell a story about the first night they were married. As they settled into bed that night, the man confided, as he had many times before, that he was having doubts; maybe they’d married too quickly.

This time, his new wife looked him dead in the eye and said, “Why don’t you get out right now and you come back once you’ve figured it out.”

It wasn’t the first time he had expressed ambivalence about the relationship, but it was the last. “That night straightened me out,” says the man, laughing."

There IS such a 'thing' as deal breakers in ALL relationships. And rightly, those deal breakers should NOT have a bad name.

Adult decisions have adult consequences. If my husband wants a 'fling'? He can have that (He's an adult and can make 'that choice') and I'll have a divorce quickly there-after when I find out... He knows that.

I really believe that attitude is what my 'mom'/dysfunctional thinkers run on... "I made an ADULT decision to marry/have a child BUT I'm not 'sure' about "it"..." Well, says the 'other party' wife/child, "You made the choice/decision to have/take Me... Now YOU have a responsibility to do 'that' right or make different choices moving forward." In the case of 'cold feet'/unsure spouse? Separate/divorce/annul... In the case of an unwanted child? Everyone knows the "options" but the worst choice an adult can make is to 'raise' the child(ren) when that raising is resentment and abuse toward the child that never asked for the 'parent'(s) they got.

@HolyHannah

While I agree with the sentiments of the article you posted, I'm finding it hard to grasp the connection you are making to the parents and unwanted children. Can you explain further?

I definitely agree that healthy boundaries are a recipe for success in every relationship and if someone is unsure about the relationship they are in they certainly have the right to walk away and the other party has the right to tell them that their decision is final.

Amelia247 -- What I was trying to illustrate is that in any relationship there are "deal breakers" and those can absolutely exist in the parent/adult child relationship as well.

If a parent didn't want a child at the time, they had adult options available that didn't include raising that child(ren). As the second child of a 'mom' who clearly hated being a parent, but bragged that "unlike some kids" We were 'planned and wanted', I have to say birth control, abortion and adoption were available enough for me to not have existed if mother-hood wasn't her 'thing'.

So if a child reaches an adult age and says, "Your behavior is a deal-breaker for Me." and walks away from a parent/'family', no one should see it as 'okay' to tell that person they should "try again"/harder to fix the relationship with her any more then they should if my husband cheated.

TRIGGER WARNING

I'm still allowing my mum to ring (don't know why, have to block her, she destroys me for the whole day).

Yesterday she said it. I'm using the grandchildren as weapons. Where on earth does she get this idea from? She knows how much they have hurt us but whenever I try to talk to her she just changes what happened, or attacks me and says I'm not perfect.

They also just constantly ask for the kids alone. That is what they want first step to be. I'm hoping that one day she'll have an epiphany and realise how horrible they are (lol). Why is this using the grandchildren as weapons such a common saying. I've seen examples of this maybe a handful of times, most of the time it's parents protecting themselves or their kids.

I'm using the grandchildren as weapons. Here are the REAL reasons why they aren't allowed to see the kids (TRIGGER WARNING):

- The physical punishment used on my older brothers. Being held against the wall, their hair pulled and screamed at
- Mum grabbing the feather duster screaming and threatening to beat them with it
- Mum kicking the crap out of the washing machine because she was angry in front of us (we were very young)
- Dad repeatedly asking me to watch porn as a teenager
- Dad talking about watching a video of minor being raped (he called it a 12-year-old girl having sex)
- Denial of pain medication. I was always given less than minimum dose and if I got myself more, I was ridiculed as being weak
- Dad constantly having his hands down his pants in front of us kids.
- Pornography in easy view all over the house (screensaver on computer, digital photo frame)
- The cover up of my sexual abuse and continuing to allow me to be abused (continuing to leave me unsupervised with him)
- Disagreeing with Ventolin. Saying they don’t agree with it when my 4 year old has bad asthma
- Call giving painkillers to kids as drugging them
- Not listening or respecting anything at all. Giving newborn old formula and refusing to stop. Dad walked away from me shaking his head, rolling his eyes and refused to give me newborn
- Being nasty any time I tried to say anything. I asked my dad not to give 12 month old hot dogs every day. He told me I was full of s**t and gave me the silent treatment
- Ignoring carseat safety. Kids constantly incorrectly buckled in, safety buckle removed from carseat because dad didn’t like it. Constantly insulting me about seatbelt by saying ‘mummy just wants to strangle you. Poor thing’
- Constant denying son’s special needs. Arguing with me in public. Dad raising his voice at son to go down the slide, I tell him that he doesn’t understand and dad says he understands everything, he just chooses to ignore.
- Constantly using slurs ie N**ger, retard, backwards, mongoloid, subby, p**fter
- Giving the boys the silent treatment. Ignored oldest boy on his birthday because he was angry.
- Dad abusing and kicking animals in front of us frequently (usually just because he's in a bad mood)

Sorry I'm just SO angry at being accused of using my kids as weapons

"Sorry I'm just SO angry at being accused of using my kids as weapons"

It's highly likely they'll continue to see it that way if you maintain contact-

Stop having contact Ironflower. TBH having read your post I'm surprised you haven't done so already.

Ironflower that's all so completely awful. Your children aren't safe with those people and neither are you. The further you get away from them the better you will feel. There is absolutely nothing good there.

Please keep yourself and your children safe.

As for the whole saying about using children as weapons...

The only people who would think that children are or could be used as weapons (objects) instead of little people to be loved and cherished are the sort of people who would use children as weapons (objects).

Like with Holyhannah and her parents calling cps on her for no good reason. No one who truly cares about their grandchildren as people, rather than objects to be argued over, would make a false report like that.

I don't agree that the only people who think or indeed can see that children are being used as weapons are those who would use them in that way.

There are GP's who see their GC being used as weapons and parents who see their children being used by the children's GP's as weapons. Does that mean that they can only see this because they'd do the same if they had the chance?

No one who truly cares about their grandchildren or children "rather than objects to be argued over" would make false reports or wish to use any child to further their own agenda. Sadly there are parents and GP's who will and do.

Ow I hadn't read that HolyHannah's parents called CPS. That's my other fear. Once they realise this won't be worked out, they could do this. My mum threatens to call on everyone for the tiniest things. I could definitely see them doing this.

Ironflower please remove yourself from these people. Neither you nor the children are safe with them. Accusing you of things like children as weapons is just part of the whole abusive cycle you have experienced for your whole life. Please don't focus on that one aspect to make you angry. Focus on breaking away from them completely. They might call the CPS ...but you will deal with that. Please stop contact and start to move forward.