Why you might be estranged... aka the same theme/attitude of EP/EGP's that EAC understand.

www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-have-abused-your-child

Abusers do admit to abuse, HolyHannah- I've already sited examples- Another example would be that they plead guilty in court and their sentencing is sometimes determined, in part, on the fact that they hold themselves accountable-

HolyHannah Yes I accept that your Mum would come on here and claim to be the victim because I have no reason to not believe your description of your childhood and your mother. I accept that there are patterns and common behaviours.

My point is that one can't tell who is who and therefore for both EAC and EP one can only take what one is told. Depending on what someone says one can constructively point out other ways to look at something; other things they might consider; how what they describe might feel to their child or whatever. Expressed in the right way, constructive criticism might open their eyes. Coming from people with different but relevant experiences can help each oth of us

My comment didn't link to EPs feeling attacked on here. Or EACs feeling attacked on here. Some times people choose not to comment not because they are "wilfully blind" but because they feel that commenting will not help or they feel that the attacked person is capable of dealing with it or has drawn their own line under the problem. Yennifer appears to have dealt with what happened to her in a way that works for her. Chewbacca will respond or not as she sees fit. Other posters will draw their own conclusions

Madgran -- That's my point. My 'mom' would get on here and claim her wonderfulness and how 'victimized' she is by being 'abandoned' by her horrible child. She would get support and belief that she is the victim. She's not. Abusers never admit to abuse but they do roll out all the familiar behaviors/attitudes and "common themes". So how do you tell who is who?

You need only look at peoples behavior and what they do to make that assessment. People who don't apologize or acknowledge their mistakes/bad behavior are displaying the behaviors that cause estrangement from an EAC POV.

The fact that my own 'parents' have no ability to self-reflect and say many of the things that have been said here is called a pattern of behavior. Saying you are not doing something while doing 'it' is gaslighting. And there has been plenty of gaslighting and DARVO on this thread.

Respect is a two-way street. If an EP feels 'attacked' by this thread then that is their feeling and I am not in control of how anyone but me feels. To the EAC who have been attacked here? Yennifer is still waiting on her apology from Chewbacca...

I see what I see and am not willfully blind like those here that never said anything about the attack on Yennifer.

You're welcome, Yennifer-

rosecarmel that was lovely. Thank you x

My mother would probably never look for any online support because she doesn't like things in writing where she can't talk her way out of lies when there's a trail of evidence x

Yennifer, regarding not being the brightest spark ..

m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYIiOUtmM7U

* I promise my 'mom' would sound exactly like many of you who complain about your own immature, ungrateful and 'mentally ill' AC who have gone No Contact for 'no reason' from "good and loving families".*

And in your context Holy Hannah you will know that is not correct regarding your own mother. Others who claim it on this site, are not your mother. Their context and reality of their estrangement may be different and what they say may be true just as yours may be true.

Again, one cannot prove ones truth/reality from examples. You are believed that your story is true as you tell it on this site. That is as it should be. Others deserve the same.

[wink

Don't label but suggest some are scab pickers-

And self harmers-

The label parade continues ..

Yes we are "all on a journey of one kind of another" Chewbacca.

Absolutely. Why label yourself? And others? We are all adults allegedly, who, for one reason or another, cannot/do not/will not get on with a family member/s. Some of us have accepted the situation and moved on with our lives. Some of us are still reeling from the pain and confusion and are seeking some kind of peace and equilibrium. And some of us just get satisfaction from continually picking the scab; a bit like self harmers. But we're all on a journey of one kind of another, aren't we........

Oh! I was thinking Abused Child! Yes I agree with no labels being best. Then we can just be Smileless2012 and Yennifer x

Or maybe no labels would be better after all, every one here on GN is an AC aren't they.

It would be nicer to have different labels I think, it might be better than people being put in the same basket. I might call myself and my peers AC in future x

I am not questioning the truth in what you say Yennifer I'm simply seeking to illustrate that some of the experiences of abused children are experiences shared by non abusive EP's.

Just as some EAC's can and do blame their parents and all the family for the tension/dysfunction and failures in their own lives.

As I posted earlier, in the context of the family AC are not immune from scapegoating their parents.

I felt ostracised from the family while still being in it if that helps the analogy. It's the truth Smileless2012, I guess it doesn't matter who believes me but for my own good I need to be more careful about who I talk to about it or allow myself to be vulnerable with in future x

Thanks for the link Yennifer. IMO it's still a questionable term when used in the context of a child being singled out for abuse.

The goat was sent out, sent away, taking the 'sins' with it, away from the sinners and out of their community.

I agree Chewbacca "the incredulity and disbelief cuts both ways". That said I wouldn't dream of telling any EAC that "I don't believe many of you who claim" I was an abused child.

Chewbacca -- That's exactly what I said. I promise my 'mom' would sound exactly like many of you who complain about your own immature, ungrateful and 'mentally ill' AC who have gone No Contact for 'no reason' from "good and loving families".

Smileless -- "So, in the context of a child singled out for abuse, are we saying that the parent(s) of that child are symbolically placing their sins upon that child in order to rid themselves of responsibility and consequence?" Yes -- That is exactly what the Scapegoat child is there for. That's their 'role' in the family dysfunction.

If the Scapegoat "didn't do/wasn't so (insert)" then they wouldn't act the way they do (abusively) toward that child. The 'family' blames the Scapegoat for ALL the family tension/dysfunction to absolve their abusive behavior.

That's exactly what it is Smileless2012, I looked it up x

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/tech-support/201711/how-narcissistic-parents-scapegoat-their-children

SO pardon me if, like you, I don't believe many of you who claim, "I was a good parent."

The incredulity and disbelief cuts both ways HolyHannah. I'm struggling to believe all that I read on here too and I also wonder what the estranged families would say if they were asked to give their side of the story. I think it would be relevatory.

That's very interesting Holyhannah "misinterpreting and re writing word meanings to fit a personal narrative".

I find the aforementioned the case when the term 'scapegoat' is used with reference to children who are singled out among their siblings for abuse.

I posted earlier about the origins of the term scapegoat. So, in the context of a child singled out for abuse, are we saying that the parent(s) of that child are symbolically placing their sins upon that child in order to rid themselves of responsibility and consequence?

If not, is the use of the term scapegoat/scapegoating relevant in this context?