Why you might be estranged... aka the same theme/attitude of EP/EGP's that EAC understand.

If EPs post links to EC saying "I cut off my parents because I wanted a red car and they bought me a blue one" I'd be horrified right along with them!

We have 2 posters on this thread saying EC should not be here and 2 posters saying they are welcome here but should not post what they post and 1 poster saying that HolyHannah is frightening, too angry and needs help. I don't get why that's OK. I wouldn't say that to anyone ever x

Sparkly life goes on and it's good to see how many do move on and make a life for themselves.

Knowing "the validity of the writer/speaker in those links" is a valid point Madgran which is why I prefer to read about posters' own experiences rather than links.

As you say, there are countless links to all aspects of estrangement that are readily available to anyone wanting to read them.

It is a mine field as you say jenpax.

Very well said HolyHannah, I agree with everything you say. I am an EP and I had decided some time ago not to live in a state of permanent upset and drama over my family’s estrangement.

It’s not easy but I have loving supportive friends.

An area I still find could affect me is having to explain to yet another person who asks about the estrangement.

Hold your head up high, EPs and EGPs, find things to do to take your mind off it and soon the pain will lessen!

I.promise you Jenpax it was a last resort for me and most EC I know to cut out parents completely. I do think it's important to move with the times and acknowledge past behaviour isn't acceptable now. I've seen posters do that and get a good response from their ACs x

Reading these just reminds me of what a mine field bringing up children is! The behaviours considered acceptable in my parents generation are now condemned by subsequent generations! So easy to see how you can fall foul of changing attitudes and norms and thus lead to being CO?

* Yennifer …"ECs age too. I didn't estrange till I was old enough to be a gran"*

Exactly Yennifer. It seems a mistake for anyone to assume that all ACs are of a particular generation and all EPs are significantly older! Some EACs will also be grandparents. Some EPs/EGPs may also have younger children (People might have become parents as teens/grandparents in early "middle age" - though I am not entirely sure what "Middle age is these days ) EACs grow old too don't they!

I think this is why it is so important that it is recognised/acknowledged by posters that estrangement is painful for everyone who has experienced it. They may or not have been the orchestrator of the situation in which they find themselves. Their experience may be different from one's own but that does not make their experience any less valid, less painful or less/more important. What they have done/what has caused their estrangement will be different to another persons. Because they are an EAC or an EP/EGP does not mean they will be the same/have done the same as someone from that group in another posters life.

I understand that the links can be useful/helpful when they reflect the experience of posters on here who can find comfort/validation or whatever for their own lives/feeling/decisions. I find it interesting that one can find so many links for so many things depending on what one searches for. For instance if one types in "toxic daughters in law" or "toxic adult children" or "toxic parents" loads of articles and links will come up and they could easily be added to masses of the threads that come on the estrangement forum. However it always worries me as to how one really knows the validity of the writer/speaker in those link. I posted one myself a while ago and then was told another side to that particular story by a poster who had encountered a connected person on another site. It has made me wary!

None of my musings above (apart from my first comment agreeing with you) are directed specifically at you Yennifer apart from an interest in any viewpoint you have; just saying that to avoid any potential misunderstanding.

There are EAC who read and post here and as one of them, I find the constant need for those who identify as EP's to gas-light/diminish/dismiss references of abusive narcissistic parents and mothers in particular distasteful

There are many EPs on here who do not do that, aren't there? It is a serious question. As I have mentioned previously I do think that including the word |"some" in sentences would help alleviate posters need to point out that statements do not apply to ALL EPs or ALL GPs or ALL EACs.

Why? If parents here aren't abusive then surely they are just as horrified by our parents behaviour as we are over each others? Surely we know lots about estrangement that is very helpful to estranged parents trying to find better ways to communicate with their children? What about EPs that haven't realised certain ehaviours are wrong and might learn to be better ? How about the ECs the were estranged from grandparents By their abusive parents? Surely that offers insight? What about those of us worried they may be repeating the same old patterns, nothing for us? Is it just too uncomfortable that grans and gran age people might be estranged from parents? Is it because our being here makes you look or feel bad so we should all go away? I'm just not understanding.

Missfoodlove quite agree with you.

If estranging AC are telling the truth to their C about why they have been stopped seeing their GP that love them, why would it be unacceptable for the grown up GC to receive a letter from them after the GP have passed away? I hope my beloved GC seek me out before hand, but if not I do have a 'memory box' for them both, especially so my GD can learn who her real family are & how much they all loved her so, this being the reason her stepdad cut her off from us all due to his jealousy.

I do find it odd that an estranging AC would seek out a Gransnet site to tell her story of estranging her C from their loving GP and to get support & a pat on the back for it Mumsnet is the site for that surely

As you've posted rosecarmel it all depends on the content of a letter that EGP's leave their GC. I agree a letter can be a double edged sword.

We have a 'memory box' to be left to our EGC. Birthday and Christmas cards, 'baby's first Christmas' tree decorations with the date of their 1st Christmas. Little gifts that were bought for our 1st GC that we were never able to give.

We plan to put in family photographs. Photo's of ourselves, our family, a selection of photo's of their dad throughout his childhood, adolescence and early adulthood, their GGM's and wider family members who they'll never have met and some family history.

It appears both sides have their variety of hills to die on-

This is getting very confusing and hurtful x

Is it OK for ECs to talk through their abuse here or not? I'm getting mixed messages. ECs age too. I didn't estrange till I was old enough to be a gran if I'd started earlier x

We all listen to each other, so I know already that attempts at contact from my mother have been ignored. We were talking about letters left in the will anyway and if you read back I said better to reach out with a letter once at 18 than leave one after death when all you can do is cause pain.

Seems to be some picking and choosing of what some want to hear when others speak x

HolyHannah, The anger in your posts is frightening.
I really feel you need to get some professional help.
We are all aware there are two sides to every story and most GN users have a fairly balanced view and only post on matters in which they have some experience.
I hope you can find someone to help you get some perspective.

"This is GN. It isn't a site purely for EAC. There are EP's and EGP's who read and post here and as one of them, I find the constant need for links and references to abusive narcissistic parents, mothers in particular distasteful."

Yes Smileless, this is Gransnet, a place where GP age people can speak of and share their experiences...

Employing YOUR 'logic'/truth, "This is GN. It isn't a site purely for EP's/EGP's. There are EAC who read and post here and as one of them, I find the constant need for those who identify as EP's to gas-light/diminish/dismiss references of abusive narcissistic parents and mothers in particular distasteful because my reality IS my 'mom' was abusive."

Letters can be a double edge sword- They may reinforce what the children already knew or reveal something they didn't- For example, something the parents chose not to share due the damaging nature of the information-

A letter may contain a bit of both, what they knew and what they didnt, if the letter is an expression of equanimity and gentleness- Regardless of their age, what doesn't change, is doing whatever is in their best interest-

If letters for example are left by EGP's for their GC to have when they are of an age to make their own decisions, they will be able to decide whether or not they wish to read them.

As you say Sparkling when children reach adulthood they shouldn't feel the need to ask their parents what they need to do.

Some may want to find and contact EGP's is they're still living and if they're not, they may well want to have access to anything their EGP's left them in their wills.

Yennifer, let's hope that when children reach adulthood, they are equipped to make own decisions in what path life takes them , that's what we parents do, give them roots whilst young and inspire them with the confidence and live their life, they should not be asking mom and dad what they need to do, good to give advice when asked, then leave them to make their choices.

My children will listen to me if I've earned their love and respect as it should be x

Sparkling, no, this particular thread wasn’t just to support estranged grandparents.

Its not on to tell posters they should be posting somewhere else.

Comments like that are why so many feel unwelcome

Sparkling -- What do you mean by your last line?