Why you might be estranged... aka the same theme/attitude of EP/EGP's that EAC understand.

www.bbc.com/news/education-50747583

I read on another site that an EP didn't like this because it was, "rash, biased, inaccurate, damaging and failed completely to consider the utter heartache that the estranged parent faces..."

In an article about lack of support for EC an EP feels that it is important to highlight their pain. I'm not sure what part of the story the EP felt were those things, but the attitude is familiar.

I don't mean to honestly and I don't want to get in a mess overthinking it either

Yes I understood that Yennifer My comment referred to your wish to not sound biased

Most other platforms are for younger people and I don't fit there either

I've been moving away from Facebook though as it just isn't.. I don't know how to describe it. I just find it has become very depressing or it depressed me x

Literal groups for support Madgran not an overreaching term for different people. They are just called "groups" on Facebook.

As I said on another thread, I think it is better to think in terms of people who are estranged rather than "groups"

I really don't want to sound biased. I just haven't really talked to EPs before now.

Sometimes an EP comes to the support group I admin (sadly as an admin I can't really get support for myself) and just goes to every post telling people off. Once we found out that an EP was screenshotting posts to one of their support groups to tear them apart. It really wasn't fair because those were just small snapshots of people's childhoods. We have very strict rules against our members doing that. So I have come across some crazy EPs while trying to avoid them. I cannot say that some EAC don't do the exact same thing, I don't look at exclusive EP places or I didn't until I read some of the links to them here.

I have had total strangers tell me I'm disgusting for estranging myself and my children.

What a cheek. How dare they!

I think it is Christmas, maybe the lack of presents under the tree? That sounds horribly selfish I know. Lack of visitors? All the happy families all over the TV? I don't think I want my mother, I just want a mum to love me. I don't think that will happen and I'm scared to try again now. I will try the letter idea thank you, maybe I just need to get it all out? I've been running around trying to make these days perfect and these feelings sour it a little for me x

I have had total strangers tell me I'm disgusting for estranging myself and my children.

They know nothing about you Yennifer. They don't know the reason that made you walk away from your family; or the days/weeks/months/years that led you to making your decision. They haven't had to walk in your shoes, not even for a minute, let alone a lifetime. So disregard their ill informed, judgemental comments and hold your head high. You owe explanations to no one.

What do strangers know Yennifer? They know nothing. Who are they to judge? They are in no position to judge you so try and remember that.

Focus on the people you have in your life who love you and accept you for the person you are. The judgement from strangers can be hurtful but it's those that know you and love you that matters.

You're right, there are a lot of family dramas, has there ever been a family that hasn't experienced drama? I doubt it but some are able to deal with the problems they face better than others.

This is not the first post where you've expressed regret for what's happened with your mum. Is it the time of year perhaps that's making your estrangement more difficult? Christmas is a very difficult time for so many living with estrangement.

I understand your overriding concern for your children's welfare and that making contact may be detrimental to them, but if your regret persists once the Christmas period is over, maybe you could think about writing to your mum.

You may decide not to send any letter you write but find that just writing it will be beneficial for you.

Try and put it on the back burner for now and enjoy Christmas with those you love, who love you and realise how fortunate they are that you are a part of their lives x.

I feel like everywhere I go I am told mothers are wonderful. I have had total strangers tell me I'm disgusting for estranging myself and my children. Sometimes I regret that and think maybe I could make it work but reading here, reconsiliations don't seem to go so well and I can't put my children through any more. They weren't loved by my family and its such a shame. When you talk to people there is a lot of family drama that goes on and I expect that lots of good decent children are forced out rather than just putting two fingers up and walking away. Parents like the ones on the articles are extreme non shameful versions. Imagine how many are that way and hiding it x

Thankyou for clarifying the points you were making by posting this link Holy Hannah on this thread

To clarify myself, I was not saying parents who advocate hitting children are rare; as I said I am sure there are plenty across the world who do. I am aware of a few myself.

I think that acknowledgement that far from all parents, including far from all estranged parents, advocate hitting children is important as people who are estranged try to support each other. Equally not all EACs were hit as children. There are so many different stories linked to reasons for estrangement, aren't there.

I explained why in my post last night HollyHannah. This site is GN and although it's not exclusively for GM's there are men and younger women who post, it is predominantly used by GM's and the estrangement forum is where those of us who are estranged and wish to talk about our experiences, tend to do so.

IMO links can be useful but it's more beneficial for people to be able to talk about and share their personal experiences and feelings.

No one here on GN is doubting that your reality exists. I could cite sources with harrowing accounts from EP's/GP's to show that my reality exists but what's the point? People either believe what we say about what we've been through, or they don't.

I stopped going on sites for EP's/GP because a lot of what was on there was in a similar vein to the link you've provided; they didn't help or enable me to move on.

You referred to "our world as child abuse survivors", I could lay claim to that world too as a child who was abused, but I want my world to be bigger and better than that. I also want it to be bigger and better than my world as an EP/GP.

Smileless/Madgran -- Part of the title of this thread is "aka the same theme/attitude of EP/EGP's that EAC understand"

EAC understand that there are plenty of 'parents' out there that see no problem with hitting their children, adult or younger. When We are told that attitude is 'rare' I disagree. The Quora link is evidence of my position.

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/themes-abuse-is-rare.html

I started this thread as a place to post such links so that those who identify as EAC can read and hopefully learn that when being gas-lighted, that the truth is out there.

Q -- "Why did you think that the Quora link was appropriate to share here on GN where both EAC and EP/EGP's are sharing?"

A1 -- No one is forcing anyone here to read anything. I would presume, given the title of the thread, that people who identify as EP's/EGP's would understand that the thread is about things that EAC see and understand in "our world" as child abuse survivors.

A2 -- I am all about truth. That site/post exists. What is appropriate is almost always subjective. I find it appropriate to try to help my fellow abuse survivors, who have probably been through years of gas-lighting, to see that Our reality exists, not just because I "say so" but because I can cite sources.

Return Question -- "Why do You think/believe the link was inappropriate in the context of this thread?"

Starlady -- there was a later reply that indicated daughter was an adult.

Hitting or the advocating of physical assault (that's what physical 'discipline' is) is textbook abuser whether they follow through on the violence or not.

Even threatening to hit a minor child is emotional abuse. Hitting another adult short of self-defense or defense of others is inexcusable and actionable by law.

If the world was right, 'mom' would be charged with assault and any minor children in her home removed until she takes some parenting/anger management classes. If she's willing to hit one? She's willing/able to hit the others.

Yes, there is plenty missing from the story but I feel the important fact is there... Mom is abusive. Daughter may be as well. Abuse is a learned behavior. That said, 'mom' is supposed to be the bigger adult and an example setter and she is teaching that hitting those you have power over is okay. Not a good message.

As for the Quora link, I feel as if we don't have enough details, unless I missed something. Sure the incident may have just been "over washing dishes," but it might have been part of a series of issues between mum and daughter. I definitely think slapping someone is worse than using a nasty word, so, IMO, Mum was more wrong that daughter. And so, I'm glad Mum apologized. I think the daughter is way off base to say she "did nothing wrong," but again, we don't know what led up to it.

Also, I don't think I saw where they said if daughter was an adult or not. If she's a teenager, I could see punishing her for disrespect (but not by hitting). But if she's an adult, I would just react as I would to any other adult, whatever that reaction might be. I don't agree w/ those replies that suggested one should show the same kind of respect for elders regardless of one's age. There's a point where that respect needs to be mutual, IMO, and where one can be as frank w/ them as w/ one's peers. I don't mean it's "ok" to be rude, though, and clearly, name-calling is rude. But I would say that regardless of age.

I'm another one who was astounded at the harsh "you should have disciplined her more" comments, etc. Well, not really "astonished," as I've seen that before, but definitely concerned. Again, I didn't like the rudeness either. But the idea that it's ok to be abusive in return disturbed me. So did the lack of interest on the part of some in what might have been behind it all.

But thinking more carefully, I've no doubt the woman in the video is in a lot of pain. IMO, she is going in the wrong direction, moving away from caring about what EAC think - more to the point, what her own EAC think, I suppose - instead of trying to understand and see where that knowledge may lead to healing. But maybe she has tried and it didn't work out... IDK...

Regardless, I agree that, if all else fails, one needs to just move on and rebuild one's life. In fact, hopefully, one's life already has much else in it besides one's EAC. I'm sure it's not easy though and I commend those of you here who have already done it. (Same for EAC here who have had to rebuild.)

"Wow! Just wow!"

This^^ was my first thought, too.

It would be useful HolyHannah if you answered the question asked twice now by Madgran what is the point you are trying to make?

Why did you think that the Quora link was appropriate to share here on GN where both EAC and EP/EGP's are sharing? I would have thought it more appropriate on a form exclusively for EAC; if it's appropriate at all which TBH I don't think it is.

TBH I get tired of being gas lighted into believing that at best, EP's who are not abusive are rare, and at worse don't exist at all.

I am sure that across the world, there are "plenty of these types" but they are still extreme.

From what I have seen on GN, I don't think any poster on here would advocate the advice and comments in the Quora link. If they did I am 100% certain they would be told in no uncertain terms that they are wrong by many many posters, AP's GPs, ACs, EGPs, EACs, EPs alike.

I do not understand the point that you are trying to make specifically related to this thread/forum?

I agree that they are extreme Madgran. The one indisputable truth about narcissists is they are never wrong and in order to perpetrate that myth, they get rid of anyone and everyone who will see them as they really are.

I understand how you felt Yennifer I have had posts here on GN accusing me, in a passive aggressive way of being a narcissist. They were removed because other GN's reported them. I'm glad you managed to get over the affect that had on you.

Yennifer -- Exactly. The crying 'victimhood' while displaying obvious abusive behavior and beliefs. Plenty of these types do exist and I get tired of being gas-lighted into believing that "truly abusive" parents are 'rare'. Every single 'parent' there who agrees or advocates for further violence (either past or present) is a child abuser.

They are the first to cry, "I'm not a Narc/abusive." while obviously being abusive and the Narcissist part is the fact that by saying it, again makes it truth/reality regardless of facts.

It wouldn't be okay for a man to hit his wife regardless of what 'name' she may have called him but yeah, go ahead and hit your kids because you're the 'parent'.