Stunned by daughter’s actions. Advice needed please.

my grown daughter and i had an argument recently and i told her that i love her but sometimes i really don’t like her for the things she has done in the past (dating married men, marrying a man so his family would pay for her college( she told me she married him for the “end result-money”. she now has a new husband who is wonderful but will not allow him to have his boys from a previous marriage visit him. After our argument she said she wants nothing to do with me. I believe she is afraid i will share her past with her new husband. I was not allowed to participate in her 40th birthday party (i ordered a cake and bought the decorations). yesterday i was going to walk my dog and asked if my 5yo granddaughter could join us. She said, in front of her husband that i was unstable and she did not trust me to be around my GC. i have always loved my grandchild and would never let anything happen to her. i have never been so hurt as to being called unstable. i don’t know what to do

First, so happy GD got a job offer she's excited about! IMO, it's a good call on your part not to burst her "happy bubble" right now. No doubt, she'll figure things out for herself, eventually, anyhow.

Second, you tell me there haven't been any recent issues between D and GD, or at least, "no more than the usual." I was going to say that maybe D didn't want to deal w/ the "usual" anymore and that's why she's backing away. But then you told us about her pulling away from other family members, too. Sounds like something is going on w/ her (perhaps related to her mental health issues, perhaps not) that you may not even know about. Seems like it is more about her than anyone else. I'm so sorry. Especially given the time of year, etc. Hugs!

I don't really have any advice, I just wanted to say that I am sorry you are in such an awful position. I don't think I will ever truly understand why some mothers can't love their children, let alone treat them so poorly on top. She has you and will know she is loved and I think that is about all you can do. You can't change your daughter sadly, that would have to come from her x

Sorry Grannytomany I posted to quick and wanted to add,
But at least she has you and you sound very close to her probably a replacement mother, who she is lucky to have.

You GD is "involving" you by asking you to lie.

Tell her you wont get involved. You wont bring the subject up with GGD. But if GGD ASKS a question you will tell the truth

I have been estranged from my toxic mother for over 40 years, when my children were little she never even sent them as much as a birthday card, they grew up knowing she wasn’t a nice person and never once expressed a desire to meet her.
In fact they met her once as teenagers in a family funeral and commented later that they were pleased she had never been in their lives.
Hopefully your granddaughter will in time realise herself that both she and her children may be happier without her mother in their lives, I can appreciate how hurtful this probably is for you though.
Like I used to, your granddaughter may be yearning for a mother she will never have, hope I’m not speaking out of turn
Sending you hugs ?

Agree that you should not be your daughter’s messenger. Let her do her own dirty work.. Instead emphasis through actions just how much your granddaughter and her children mean to you. Love comes in many forms.

But she in undoubtedly going to be very hurt. When the truth of the matter becomes clearer to her, you might well have to sit down with your granddaughter and provide a listening ear and support.

Prescriptive text. Should have been it sounds as if, your granddaughter is going on with her life with your help.

I would say nothing to granddaughter, just always do as you do now, you are the constant loving grandma. Your daughter has a mental health issue which you cannot help her with unless she wants you to. I would not pass on any messages, if my daughter asked me too I would tell get no, that's your job, she's upset enough as she's done nothing wrong, . It sounds unfortunately that you have minimal contact with her. A very sad situation, but butcould as if your granddaughter,neigh your help, is getting on with her life.

It is indeed.

No, there haven’t been any recent issues, or no more than usual at any rate whuch is why it’s so puzzling and hard to understand. It seems my daughter is cutting herself off from the rest of the family as well now. Her sister rang to discuss Xmas day arrangements and was apparently also given short shrift. I know for sure that there've been no issues between the two of them because they rarely see each except at Xmas when the whole immediate family usually makes a point of getting together.

Just as an update though, I was saved from having to broach the subject with my granddaughter this afternoon as our shopping was interrupted by a welcome phone call offering her a new job. I was so relieved and have no intention if bursting her happy bubble at the moment.

Have either of them said if there have been any recent issues between them? If so, that may be what has caused mum to go NC (no contact). And GD probably has an idea of what's going on. But like you, and others here, I can't imagine anything that would make me CO my child, even as an adult. Sooo sad...

My heart is aching for you, Grannytonanny! What a terrible position to be in! And I feel for GD and her family, too.

I agree that you shouldn't lie to GD, but you shouldn't let yourself be dragged into the middle either. I like your idea of saying her mum "isn't doing Christmas this year," though, no doubt, it's a half-truth - her mum ISN'T doing Christmas w/ GD and her kids. But for them, it's the same as if she weren't doing it at all.

If GD pushes for more, you MIGHT say her mum just "needs some space," right now, from anyone not in her household. That would let her know not to expect or try to make contact, w/o making her feel that she's totally CO (cut off) forever. But then, that doesn't explain why the mum is in touch w/ you. So maybe that's not such a good idea.

Perhaps best, if you must say something more, to advise her to just back off for a while, and let mum reach out to her when she's ready. That's what GD should do, at this point, IMO, after all. But I would only say it once and then leave it up to her.

This is so sad! I'm trying to imagine what I would want my grandparent to tell me in this situation. Your grandchild is a grown woman and deserves to know the truth and can't be protected from it forever! It's obvious to me you love her so so much and she will find comfort in that x

I think that's a very good idea Grannytomany, to tell her her mum isn't doing Christmas.

I can understand your feelings about your D, this must be extremely difficult for you.

I hope it goes OK this afternoon

Bettydl, that’s about where I am at the moment. My husband thinks I should say nothing ever and even deny having see our daughter recently but I can’t see that working as granddaughter is bound to raise the subject and this afternoon again probably. At a more normal time of year perhaps but not now.

If the matter crops up, I think I’m going to say that mums told me that she’s just not doing Christmas this year and see if that will do for a while. I doubt it will somehow but I’m going to try my hardest to let granddaughter get through Xmas without realising the full extent of the intended estrangement.

I’m very close to hating and/or despising my daughter today and find myself hoping she’ll just move away and isolate herself geographically as well. I’m also thinking about our will but don’t intend to do anything hasty.

I dread to think how my daughters 4 siblings will react to the news. If I decide to tell them at some point.

Grannytomany - I'm going to go against the grain here and say I think you should tell your GD. She needs someone who she can rely upon and it seems clear that isn't going to be her own Mother.

You know your GD better and whether it will cast a cloud over Christmas. I don't think you need to tell her immediately due to Christmas but I would tell her.

Hettybet, no financial difficulty and no abusive relationship although my daughter has made some very bad relationship choices over the years. Yes, I agree that presents are trivial in the grand scheme of things but Granddaughter is just going to see that (and rightly) as rejection of her children as well as herself. And she’ll really take that to heart.

I’m sure mental health issues, including diagnosed PTS play a big part but even so.

I’m struggling to think of anything which woukd make me turn my back on any of my children like this, let alone grandchildren

I would feel the same way but then I (and you) do not have a mental illness issue which clearly your daughter has.
It's unlikely she will seek treatment so if you are aksed, and depending on the ages of the grandchildren, be as honest as you can be.

We've had to tell my grandson, now aged 10, that his other grandma has 'a brain which doesn't work quite as well as she'd like'. Or words to that effect.

The presents seem trivial compared to no contact, so let your granddaughter buy what she'd planned to.

Is your daughter in financial difficulty - and/or an abusive relationship? Could her 'no presents or contact' be some excuse (a simple way) for not buying or bothering? Is she depressed? It's just so unnatural to cut yourself off from family.

What a horrible position to find yourself in Grannytomany. I think I would be skating over the thin ice for now. A terrible rejection for your grand daughter and, as other's have said, you should not be expected to have to pass on such devastation news from your daughter. I think she is being very unfair to say these things to you whilst refusing to speak to her daughter herself.

You sound a lovely grandmother. All you can do is to continue to support your gran daughter and be there to pick up the pieces. I would certainly not tell your gran daughter that her mother says she will never see her brother again. He is 13 and in a very few years will be able to make up his own mind about such things. My very best wishes to you.

Difficult situation but just continue with ‘I really don’t know darling’ because at the end of the day you don’t know do you ?

Yes, I agree, definitely stay out of it. It's not up to you to relay any 'news' (they could change their mind), take sides or interfere, just be supportive as best you can.

Leave them to it and don't get involved. If you say anything you will get the blame, whether you are at fault or not. Don't comment on anything. However, your daughter should be telling her adult children the truth. It's not your call though. Horrible situation, you do have my sympathy.

Thank you all.

My daughter has made it very clear today that she’s not going to tell my granddaughter herself. I’ve told her she should but she’s refused. She intends just to do nothing - as she’s been doing since late spring. I’d prefer to stay out of it but to keep saying I don’t know why mum’s not in touch is itself a lie of omission now.

The absence of any presents for the children or contact with them is going to be impossible to skate over and dismiss as of no consequence. The little one will have his first birthday a few days after Xmas so that’s another normally happy event over which the estrangement is bound to cast a pall,

I can’t understand my daughter at all. She’s always been resentful of anything we do to help her daughter even though she herself has had masses of help, both financial and physical from us over the years. If she’d known that I’d taken granddaughter to Aldi today to do a big shop, she’d have gone on a tirade about it. Granddaughter doesn’t drive and is on a low income now so the alternative of taxis seems silly when I’m close by and happy to provide the transport.

I’m struggling to think of anything which woukd make me turn my back on any of my children like this, let alone grandchildren.

Dont lie but also dont try to explain another persons actions.
If they ask why, say you dont know. Which is true, as close as you are you are still an outsider in the mother/GM relationship between your Dd and GD. Be factual: yes I have seen them, no I dont know when/why, but you can ring me whenever you like

Just reassure them that you are going nowhere.