I have some questions

I have a friend who is semi- estranged from her DD. Although they had always had a good relationship, after a 2 year stay in the USA the DD became convinced that all her problems (the stress of 2 children under 3 and a part time job) were down to her mother, and was encouraged by others to go NC. It hasn't entirely happened yet but friend has not seen her DGC for 6 months, despite DD and husband having returned to the UK earlier this year. Forgive me if I appear naive but the US cultish encouragement of going NC seems to be damaging to so many relationships. From posts I have seen GN appears to endorse posts from supporters of NC in the US, which is worrying. I can understand that there are genuine cases where people are better off without family influences but so much of the input from US posters is so entirely negative that it cannot be healthy. I shall stand by for the onslaught from the mortally offended brigade.

Gas-lighting -- "Yes let's ignore anything that's off topic and let's ignore posts that bring into disrepute the claims that a poster made about EAC not being wanted and being bullied, when they weren't."

But some have been and ARE. SO...

Smileless, you of all people have DEFINITELY seen the unhealthy threads I have seen being an active contributer to them! (And having personally driven posters from same)

There have been plenty of posts where EAC are told that NC is "allowed" if they have improbably machievellian disney villan parents.

Some more vulnerable/damaged posters then seek approval and lay their wounds bare to get "yay" or "nay"ed. Very unhealthy situation for a person who craves approval due to it lacking in their own upbringing.

And if approved, they are used as a stick to beat posters OWN AC with "well I never did THAT to MY children, so they dont pass the threshold for acceptable NCing"

So while there are some ACs "accepted" on EP threads, it is not a good/healthy place for them to be!

No, I haven't seen any threads like that either notanan.

I agree with you Madgran, it has nothing to do with how much or how little someone has suffered, it's how those experiences are expressed, and whether they can be expressed without lashing out at others who are also suffering.

Ones where a bunch of EPs tell a (usually vulnerable/fragile) EAC poster that they have been sufficently abused to be the kind of EAC who is deserving of their "support"

I haven't seen any quite like that. My observation would be that it is how posters (EAC/EPs/EGPs) express themselves that quite often causes the problems, not the "level/sufficiency of the abuse they have suffered. .

Ones where a bunch of EPs tell a (usually vulnerable/fragile) EAC poster that they have been sufficently abused to be the kind of EAC who is deserving of their "support"

notanan There is a horrible unhealthy trend here of some EP threads "approving" some EACs who have laid bare their war wounds to them and have been deemed sufficiently abused to be the right kind of EAC

Which threads notanan ...I haven't picked up "approval" or otherwise, just an ongoing tendency for threads to descend in niggling and arguments, which I think is such a shame.

There is a horrible unhealthy trend here of some EP threads "approving" some EACs who have laid bare their war wounds to them and have been deemed sufficiently abused to be the right kind of EAC.

It is disgusting and deeply unhealthy.

Problems also arise when people's stories are not believed. Sometimes this seems to be because the story does not match the experience of another poster. It is a pity when that happens as of course there are so many different scenarios in estrangement. In then end estrangement is sad, even when it is the right and necessary thing for an AC/AP or GP to do.

"Conflict arises when people gas-light and pretend they are not doing it" absolutely HolyHannah and such a shame when it happens on Christmas Eve.

Let's hope that any lighting is now kept for our Christmas candles.

Merry Christmas.

I hope you enjoyed your bubble bath Yennifer; the "pre bedtime madness" sounds wonderful. Christmas needs children to make it really magical.

You're right GN is "a tiny bit addictive".

'Merry Christmas' x

Yennifer -- Conflicts arise when people gas-light and pretend they are not doing it.

More conflict arises when people say things like, "I will always 'side' with..." based on their situation and when called on it/it is pointed out? More gas-lighting and rug-sweeping/denial from some.

The real conflict arises when some can see right through the same dysfunction we grew up with and they don't like it. I have no problem with seeing a bird floating on the water and quacking and calling it a duck. And if a duck doesn't want to be seen as such, perhaps it should stop fluffing its feathers, preening and quacking while floating on a pond and it won't get called a duck.

Happy Holidays to All.

This place seems a tiny bit addictive. That's not good!

I've been sent to have a lovely bubble bath before the pre bedtime madness. You should too and rest if you have a heart condition. Hope everyone has a lovely day tomorrow x

Starblaze! The conversation you started was how I found this place. I do see what you mean, I've read it twice and some things I mentioned above came from there. I wouldn't ever go to a conversation that is specifically for hurting grandparents like the messages on a tree one and say anything negative or tell them to get over it. Such a shame.

That's one of the saddest things about estrangement Hetty, it affect so many people and it's even sadder when it appears to be "for no good reason".

My mum has lost her only 2 GGC, our ES and his family live just a few doors down the road from her and in the summer, she can hear her GGC playing in her neighbours garden.

Some people will fall out with others because they regard them as a cold fish Hetty so that cannot be the reason you've never fallen out with anyone.

'Merry Christmas'

I'm not personally estranged (or estranging?) but I know somebody who was estranged by her DIL. She admits that she never felt the DIL was 'good enough' for her son so perhaps she let it show. Of course, the son supports his wife.

It's just a terrible shame that the son and family are cut off from in-laws, cousins, family get togethers etc. for no good reason that I can comprehend. All due to just two people who are far too proud to say 'I'm sorry, can we start again?'

I think the feelings of love and hate are very close. They can switch over so easily. If you are indifferent, it's simple to be polite and friendly to others. I've been described as a 'cold fish' so I've never fallen out with anyone!

Case in point. Same old same old. Just like my lovely mother.

Perhaps if you had "never been nasty or cruel to anyone here and tried to be supportive and not tried to offend anyone" things may have gone better for you Starblaze, but that isn't what happened is it.

My personal experience of the way you behaved toward me, puts me in an unenviable position of being able to prove you wrong. You were not alone that's true, but no less responsible for what happened here just a couple of months ago.

Of course you can continue to deny it and no doubt you will but even though Yennifer and others perhaps weren't on GN at the time to see it, there were plenty who were.

It's Christmas Eve for goodness sake, try and keep you anger and bitterness that seems to be all too often aimed at EP's under wraps, at least until Boxing day.

For my part, I have nothing against EPs in general at all. There are some very kind people here, I would only suggest caution when building relationships as some can turn very suddenly.

Of course not all EACs here are friendly either. This disclaimer was brought to you by advocaat and lemonade and my determination to not read the label on my heart medication in case it says I am not allowed it.

Oh well Smileless, I am sure you are in a good position to prove me wrong.

It is however how I feel and I am entitled to feel it. I've never been nasty or cruel to anyone here and tried to be supportive and not tried to offend anyone. Went well for me eh?

I'm sure Yennifer wouldn't have asked if they hadn't sensed it for themselves.

I think Madgran is right Yennifer that it's down to you and all of us for that matter, to decide what is appropriate to post and what is best left unsaid.

Sadly there are examples from some who seem to go out of their way to cause upset to others and put some off posting here, especially EAC which is such a shame as there is support here from EP's/GP for those who took the painful and difficult decision to estrange themselves from abusive parents.

Such a shame that you thought it appropriate to post something so negative and potentially off putting to a new poster to GN who also happens to be an EAC Starblaze. Especially on Christmas Eve which can be such a difficult day for all living with estrangement, and the majority of posters are being as understanding and supportive of one another, as they can be.

Yennifer I think you should make up your own mind what you can and cannot say on this forum. Others will have different views and perspectives. I know that you personally have had your own pain and worries acknowledged on a different thread by an estranged parent I hope that you found that helpful

You can't talk from your own personal experience here without some estranged parents getting mad you haven't included them or mentioned them in your narrative or somehow made it clear that you aren't talking about them personally even though common sense dictates you are talking about your own parent. You can't be unsupportive to estranged parents but they can be to estranged children. You can't have threads for estranged children only because they throw tantrums. You can't point out what they might be doing wrong in a relationship or they go for the throat. If you say that you feel uncomfortable or harassed you may as well hold a sign saying DO IT MORE. if you accuse anyone specifically of bullying you the narrative will be twisted to make out you are the bully.

This is the reality that is the estrangement threads and if someone takes a personal dislike to you, prepare to be followed all over gransnet.

This isn't true of all estranged parents but there is a very cliquey few who are all over policing threads here.

Wait till you say the first thing they don't like for whatever illogical reason.

Sorry