What else can I do for my daughter to want me in her life

Do I think it's acceptable for her to walk on eggshells? No. But then, she has to recognize that you don't get to basically write off the parents and request to still have a relationship with the children.

Thank you Madgran77, I do feel I have reached out so much and I know it's never going to be reciprocated, my daughter has an amazing capacity to just shut you out and had done so to other family members and friends alike. They have to go to her, never would she approach them. I just can't keep doing this, it's making me ill and has caused depression, anxiety, self doubt, stress, I just need to try and move on. I would dearly love to be able to see my grandchildren, hopefully like I said, this will be a possibility. My text to my dd was not abrupt and not a threat, just an acceptance that she does not appear to want a relationship with me, or the rest of her family, I only made it plain that I love her but I need to know how we can come to an agreement. I know I have to step down. I also know, without any doubt, that I only ever showed love, never anger, I truly have tried. This breaks my heart but it will affect me in a big way if I continue to put myself in this position. I have decided to concentrate on my other three wonderful children and husband who are helping me come to terms with this. I really don't feel I have any other choice than to give my odd the choice and take her lead.

I don't understand your post agnurse. Surely you don't think that the way Panda's being treated by her D and s.i.l. is acceptable!!

If Panda were the D being treated like this by her mother no doubt you'd be praising her decision to stand up for herself even if that means walking away. One rule for AC and another for parents it seems.

panda Good for you. You have been treated appallingly. Please ignore certain posters who go out of their way to be nasty and jump to ridiculous conclusions, no doubt because their own lives are dire. The amount of spiteful comments on some of these threads amaze me.

Good luck panda and please stick up for yourself. Sorry to say this but your older daughter and her hubby sound quite awful frankly. Concentrate on your other children and your husband. Stop pandering to the odd, she’s not worthy by the sounds of it.

Panda, you have done what you think best, I hope things work out for you, it was making you so unhappy.
Agnurse, another supportive post.

*Wow, that basically reads as "Do whatever you want, but gimme those babies".

If someone sent me that, it would be a big fat NO.*

And Panda accepts it might be No agnurse, that is clear in her post! And yes, she is saying "do what you want" because she has decided to take responsibility for her own wellbeing and is allowing her daughter to do the same! She is accepting that her daughter may decide that she cant see her grandchildren but is no longer willing to ignore her own wellbeing to stop that happening. She has handed responsibility to her daughter as an adult but has also made choices for herself, as an adult!!

Wow, that basically reads as "Do whatever you want, but gimme those babies".

If someone sent me that, it would be a big fat NO.

Yennifer I understand your point ..but I'm not sure Panda thinks it will help the situation, just help her! Although painful Panda has decided to help herself by putting her own well being and happiness first and being responsible for it in this painful situation ...she is basically making the decision to estrange herself just as ACs do ...and is hoping that her daughter will still let her see her grandchildren ...but she is accepting that she might not be allowed to . Very brave and very hard. Panda I hope things work out in a way that is the best it can be for you

I suppose Panda is hoping that she'll still be able to see her GC Hithere and if it's convenient for her D that she does, then hopefully that will continue.

There are times when we are all pushed to our limit aren't there and there's only so much emotional battering we can take.

I'm not sure that text is going to help Panda220, I can understand how much it must hurt when family just don't get on. Some people just don't though. I think it would be better to work on the relationships with people who you do get on with. Family doesn't come with magical bonds and they break just like any relationship if not everyone is prepared to work on it. Let everyone be responsible for their own happiness, they are all adults x

Apologies for typos and yoda type speech

"I decided to text my daughter and say that if she continues to ignore my efforts to move forwards and either sort out any issues she may have, or decides that she really don't care one way or the other about us, then at least can we sort out some arrangement for me to see my grandchildren"

What kind of reply ate you expecting?

Demands like this with an estranged person do not go well

A difficult and may I say brave step to take Panda. I hope for your and your GC's sake that your D wont be mean spirited enough to stop you from seeing the children.

You've done all that you could possibly be expected to do. I hope that whatever the future brings, you'll always remember that.

I wish you well.

Hello everyone, again I appreciate all the advice and just thought is let you know that, after very careful consideration and finally acknowledging that I have been treated as a virtual punch bag, I decided to text my daughter and say that if she continues to ignore my efforts to move forwards and either sort out any issues she may have, or decides that she really don't care one way or the other about us, then at least can we sort out some arrangement for me to see my grandchildren. I have decided that I can't continue getting hurt when I've done every thing I can do to have a relationship with her and yet I am not given any respect or appreciation for this. I can't do anymore so I have cione to the conclusion that being a caring, helpful, friendly parent didn't get me and won't get me anywhere in her affections. It hurts, terribly so, but I will continue to see the children hopefully and accept things as they are. My other children are very angry about their treatment of us and to be honest are happy now that I've decided to stand up for myself. I will survive this however it goes. Because I have tried and have basically answered my own question. I can't make my daughter want me in her life. Thank you to every one who tried to help xx

"Why are estranged parents' posts so vague? It is so hard to help if no information is given

Sometimes the EP is trying to avoid giving identifying information. IMO, this is understandable - and wise. Also, often I think it's hard to get down everything at once. And the OP may know the story so well they don't realize we may not get some things unless they spell them out. Or they might not always realize what we would see as important. But that's why we ask questions, surely?

Why are estranged parents' posts so vague? It is so hard to help if no information is given

This EP is doing her best to give detail and is acknowledging a level of understanding of what is appropriate and what not in her expressing her views! And if we cant comment unless we know body language etc then why are any of us bothering to comment on anything atall on an online forum!!! Dear me!

I do hope you can find a way forward Panda that doesn't require you to permanently walk on eggshells.

Reading these very sad threads it is so sad and cruel for adult children to basically blackmail the parents. I would leave the door open, tell my daughters that I love them but am not going to be treated like a piece of rubbish and is that the kind of parent they want to be to their child. If they can treat you like that then you need to stop it by telling them or asking them why they want to hurt you and you cannot take it anymore.

I so hear you, Panda! Unfortunately, I think ODD "heard," your comment as, "You should re-invite YDD to your wedding." Or "You should stand w/ YDD against SIL." I KNOW that wasn't what you said or intended, I just think that may be how ODD "heard" it.

It seems there was tension growing between ODD and YDD for a while (over the issues you mentioned previously, I imagine) since ODD had already stripped YDD of the MOH role when this new argument occurred. It seems to me that there have been a lot of issues going on and crisscrossing each other for a long time. Again, I'm so sorry. Hugs!

Weddings are notorious for causing problems and blowing them way out of proportion. Honestly, I think they bring out the very worst in people.

We don’t really know what happened, or the history behind it, but it’s obvious that Panda was trying, without a lot of success, to keep everyone happy.

Panda, you are getting it from all sides, your husband should be mindful of your feelings, and help you to give the children a nice time, unless they are little vandals, I doubt they broke anything intentionally, and your daughter and son in law, to be honest, sound pretty awful.

I know it’s all about the children, and you can’t bear the thought of not seeing them, but you really should not be treated like this.

My reasoning with my daughter was purely on the grounds that if she had decided to ban my other daughter then there was nothing I could do about that but that it saddens me to think that an arguement would actually go that far. She had never really got on with her sister and had already asked her to be maid of honor then had stripped her of that before the arguement. I was most careful not to say anything, just that it's a shame it's got to that point.

Wow! You've done a lot for ODD! Again, IMO, you are a very loving mum and GM.

"This was always overnight and at my house."

So now that the kids are banned from your house, how does it work?

Ah, faux apologies do not help. They make everything worse

A high level summary of what happened with the odd at her wedding is not going to help identify the rift.

More details - actions, what was said, body language, etc are needed.

I am with agnurse about having a background that hasn't been shared.

Why are estranged parents' posts so vague? It is so hard to help if no information is given

Oh, just read your explanation of the argument between YDD and ODD/SIL. It sounds as if it was YDD who got in the middle of various issues. Again, I totally understand why (she's clearly a very loving DD, for one). But, unfortunately, it was probably a mistake.. So was criticizing the man ODD loves and was about to marry even though, no doubt, YDD had good reason. ODD and SIL must have been very hurt and angry. I can see where they may have felt, "Fine. You don't like your sister's choice? Then don't come to the wedding!" And since YDD was defending you and DH, I'm afraid I can see why ODD/SIL felt you were intervening on YDD's behalf, even though you may have just been trying to smooth things over. I'm so sorry things got out of hand this way. And in relation to your DD's wedding too! Sigh... xx.

SIL probably thinks he is being fair by agreeing that ODD can see her family but just not have them in their house. Since you say you believe ODD agrees w/ this, then chances are she can't imagine having any of you there when you clearly dislike SIL. I get her side, but I'm sorry it has worked out this way.

Also, rethinking... she may not feel she's "using" you by asking you to watch the kids. She may feel she's doing you a favor (letting you spend time w/ them) in return for the one you're doing for her (childminding). So perhaps my earlier "using" comment was too harsh. But she and SIL have set boundaries (no visiting their home), so, IMO, you can too.