"My parents did their best" - Really, even though it was emotionally and physically abusive?

Monkey see monkey do x

Hetty58 you speak for me. May I PM you?

I don't agree that giving a child who is old enough to understand, the correct label for selfish behaviour is subtle abuse. Nor do I agree that in response to a child's silly behaviour, to say it is silly is labelling them. In both cases it is the behaviour that is being 'labelled' not the child.

Thanks ananimous for your definitions of 'punishment tools' and 'food punishment' I'm in total agreement.

Sara65

Potatoes on.

No child is a bad match - that is her dysfunctional behaviour towards a child.

All children should feel absolutely wanted and loved, not difficult or a bad match.

Yes, you can accept her illness, know she was on autopilot, without needing to inflict it upon yourself.

Sara
Sorry, I'm doing dinner, will pop back soon

I would say:

"Sharing is caring" - instead of being mean to the child and calling them selfish.

I would never label a child anything, especially "silly".

Replying to your post from 17.08

Smileless

Use of: belt/ruler/wooden spoon etc

"Go to bed without your supper!"

Ananimous

I recognise all of the above, I’m estranged from my mother and never want anything else to do with her.

But, I know she had problems for which she received no professional help, as she would have done these days. I also think we were a bad match, she may have done better with a different daughter.

I don’t like her, she made me feel really bad about myself for a long time, but it’s behind me, and a don’t blame her, I think she may have done as well as she was able.

Hetty58
Yes, I know this dynamic myself.

It sounds like you were the "scapegoat" child, and your sister was "the golden" child (of course everything was rosy!) and I'm guessing your mother played you off against each other.

When your mother died, so did the lie.

I wonder if you could explain what you mean by "punishment tools" and "food punishments" ananimous.

TBH I don't think, depending on the context that telling a child they are selfish or silly is subtle abuse. For example when a child refuses to share their toys, that is being selfish and if a child is being silly, they're being silly.

Magical thinking is such a good description x

My mother most certainly concocted her own reality and also loves magical thinking. I only met one Grandparent, who I find it difficult to believe was an abuser. Also, looking at body language in photos, I see no sign of abuse. Where did it come from, I wonder?

I've done it too. I've been abusive, I've thought manipulating people to get my own way was fine. I've thought that denying something awful I've said would be an easier option. Then I saw the looks on my children's faces and it hurt me in ways I didn't know I could. So I've worked on it and I've changed and I've walked away and made my own normal. I'll keep trying to stop the past defining me and I have strong bonds with my children. If I'd carried on I would have lost them, I could see it in their eyes and I never want to see that look again x x x

My sister just denies that there was anything wrong. It's as if she's forgotten all about it and edited her memories. In her world I've exaggerated or made it up - all very strange. My 'compensation' was that, when Mum died, all I felt was relief, no grief at all.

Yes rosecarmel We are all only following our family blueprint, changing it when and where we can.

Yennifer
Yes, sadly, you have no real choice about estrangement. Your P sounds narcissitic. Meaning: The narcissistic personality is also just a response to childhood trauma. But they seem to concoct their own reality, whilst negating yours.

Typical narc style right there. Gaslighting, smear campaign and to top it all off they exist in a fantasy lie-world.
For the child to go NC is an herculean effort.

WELL DONE YOU!
Stand proud.

I didn't do my best, I followed a pattern-

i think it is rare for people to be able to admit that they were abusive, in any situation.
if they can have the insight and humbleness to do so, that in itself can bring some healing, as it takes the sting out of the memory, which otherwise can continue to bite.
not to admit it, or even be open to the possibility, ie to take seriously the other's reported experience, is indeed adding insult (denial/gaslighting) to injury (the abuse).

there is a thread on MN revealingly titled, but we took you to stately homes...

I wouldn't be estranged if my mother could admit to even some of it and change that behaviour. She used to say it never happened and I thought I must be a bit mad. Especially denying something she said right after saying it! Then I couldn't go to other family for support because she had convinced them I was a liar. Another thing she would do which broke relationships for me was say something really vile about someone to me then go tell them I said it! I didn't know that was happening till years later. I never even thought to ask why I wasnt close to people, I was so convinced I wasn't worth people's affection. I don't think abusive people, whoever they are to us, admit to mistakes to anyone really. They just think they are the victim and have done some quite amazing mental gymnastics to get there x

Bekind
You deserved so much better, vent away if you need to, it will help you in the long run.
Your last sentence shows what an amazing mother you truly must be. Your children have the right mother.

M0nica I think your parents did their best with that choice - interestingly, I had the opposite experience to you and got "my" boarding choice - Hated it! Lol!

No, I meant abusive mistakes.
I meant the kind of mistake like:

~ Calling child selfish/silly/bad in a moment of pique/slapping/ridiculing/using punishment tools/bad language/shaming/embarrassing/food punishments/no affection/no emotional connection/manipulation/boundary-breaking - that kind of *subtle abuse.

* I say (subtle) meaning less obvious, OR always kept within the family as normal behaviour.

My mom had an abusive and trauma filled childhood. Her life turned towards the better when she was in her 20's and she lived a very comfortable life. At the same time, her relationship with me was always strange. I spent my life trying to get her approval and love but I don't think she knew how. She just passed away recently and I finally let myself "rage" about some of the ways she treated me through her life. I guess I was always too afraid to even let myself think about how angry I was and at the same time afraid to make her mad. Now I feel a little safer to vent, and sometimes think now she KNOWS what she did to me, but I'm still a little afraid my feelings are hurting her. It also concerns me how my actions as a mother has ill-affected MY children!

Some parents can be so wrapped up within their own lives that their children's needs become second place, if not ignored. Some parents were still children themselves when they became parents. A 'parent' should be the grown up a child can trust, but this is not always the case. Yes, Ive seen an abusive childhood can turn a child into an abusive parent themselves

M0nica wrote
"In later life my parents admitted that their decision was a mistake, but, as my mother said 'as parents you try and do your best for your children, but sometimes you get it wrong.' As a parent, I would say the same of myself."
I agree - when they were young their father and I put our children through some suffering because of our marriage problems.. But not intentionally.
I've apologised to all of them, don't know if it helped.